Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

I fitted hid front lights to my Brooklands Capri, it made driving in the dark much better, so what I'd like to know is.
Has anyone fitted a set to their 928? They're sets on eBay for under £60 which are H4sso do kigh and low beam.
What do yo think?

Thank you for looking Mark

Hi Mark

I went to fit the set I bought for £70 and my local MOT station said they would be banned by mid 2010. With that in mind I sent them back and have settled for searching for the brightest H4 bulb you seem to be able to buy. ThPhillipsps ULTRA which is 100% brighter than thnearestst competitors bulb. These come in a city version - which has a blue tint and a Ultra excellence version which is focountrysidede driving & is white! I had some great feedback from Phillips tech support and lots of tech data before I bought these - I have both sets answapop them out depending on how I feel and what my driving conditions will be. I will be putting the Ultra excellence - white in for the winter as they give up to 150% more light than a std unbranded bulb.

I took my sons corsa in for its MOT last week and they were already getting twitchy with his side light bulbs saying they were slightly blue in colour - caused quite a debate between the MOT technicians as to whether to let it pass or fail. So just a warning to everyone out there. I sent the Gov.co.uk web page to the seller of my HIDs which clearly states that they will be illegal from end 2010. They refunded no problem.

HID's are now required to have the following features fitted on ALL cars that have HID lights
- self levelling adjustment - automatic levelling of bulb - not headlight!
- Rain wiper feature as any rain on the lens madiffractionfraction of light on to oncoming drivers
- fully adjustable bulb to provide cross continent driving and adjustment - again that is bulb adjustment not H4 holder or lens.

I decided it wasn't worth all the bother and hassle to then get 3 points & £60 fine as I left the MOT station when it failed.
Its also now an offence to have these retro-fitted on a UK road unless all the above points are present.

So you fit em & take your chance.

Sorry to bear bad news....I was gutted after I had spent so much time researching which were the best suited to a 928 & best price.

Cheers
Steve

Just to clarify it is WASHERS not wipers for conformance. And odd cars it seems have HIDs factory fitted with no self levelling & washers. This has arisen on PH where something French was found to be set up like this (I think Saxo).

This is interesting!

My 2006 Saab 9-3 Aero has brilliant HIDs.

They are self-levelling, and have a control to adjust bulb for RHD driving (I know because I'm just back from France - though in fact HIDs typically have very flat beam so the adjustment is less obvious than with conventional lights).

But I don't recall if they have washers (but the 928 has them of course - electric everything). Will check tonight. Surely regs would allow for cars built without washers? Think it's likely my Saab so equipped as they are usually typically thorough about this kind of safety thing!

Ok, for the record I was quoting from memory so I am delving back to my emails last year where I researched all of this.

In overview this was the initial statement I found......

The use of bulbs which are not standard can have implications for your insurance too, and in fact there is a thread including this point to be found at the following VW forum, with the last post made today by an MoT tester.
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/116777.aspx?PageIndex=1

I think that the definitive view is given in the Dept. for Transport fact-sheet:-
"Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above."

Here is the exact Department of Transport fact Sheet I copied from the web just

Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps

Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps

December 2006

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport

Adrian

To be completely accurate, your Saab should have ECE type approval as an original fitment which I assume renders it compliant and all ok.

Regards any aftermarket HID bulb fitment, this is completely illegal since the H4 housing and lens is not changed and therefore does not have ECE type approval.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.



Wow, hope that all wasn't too heavy but thought it was worth sharing the web links and exact cut&paste articel from the DOT website. I will have a search through the latest MOT sites to see why & when the "blue tinted" lights rule has come in with regards any bulb that give the HID effect being an MOT failure if it wasn't standard equipment.

Hope that all helps clear up the matter.

Cheers
Steve

OK, here's the last posting as I'm sure we have flogged this to death.
This is the 2011 VOSA MOT regulations and guidance notes regarding new HID bulbs and failure notices........
Here is the link for anyone interested but the highlights are below:-

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf

Section 1.7 - Headlamps
This inspection applies to all obligatory headlamps fitted.
Headlamps are not required to be fitted to vehicles used only during the hours of daylight, which are fitted with neither front nor rear position lamps, etc. (See 1.1.A).
Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.
Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.
Headlamp washers may work in conjunction with the windscreen washers (when the dipped beam headlamps are switched on) or by a separate switch.
HID lamps may be identified by:

taking a few seconds to reach full intensity

having a bluish tinge to the light

having an igniter module/inverter behind the headlamp

having ‘DCR’ marked on the headlamp lens.
HID headlamps use high voltage and extra care should be taken when inspecting these items.
Method of Inspection
Reason for Rejection
1.
Check the presence, security and operation of the headlamp switch.
2.
Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted, switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.
3.
Check that the vehicle is securely fitted with obligatory headlamps, as follows:

a matched pair of main beam headlamps, and

a matched pair of dipped-beam headlamps
Note: Main and dipped-beam functions may be provided by a single pair of headlamps.

OMG what have I done lol
Sorry I didn't know it was going to be such a problem. They're fantastic on the 280 Capri.

All the very best Mark

They do look fantastic and work great when fitted to any car.
But, they're illegal and will get you an MOT failure at the least.

Try the Phillips lights.

Steve

Steve, i will give the Philips light bulbs a try

Atb Mark

Just search for these on ebay.

I think I paid Around £15 for the Xenon blue ones & £25 for the Extreme ultra vision plus white ones.

PHILIPS EXTREME POWER H4 XTREME XENON BULBS

Philips X-treme Vision Plus H4 12V 55W/60 + 100% more light Philips Extreme Vision

Try out the philips website too, its pretty cool - http://www.philips.co.uk/c/eco-headlights/14238/cat/
Has loads of 3D animations. I am impressed with both these bulbs!

Steve