Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

Well....it's just my luck again! Took the 928 in to a local Porsche specialist to look at the cam belt as the warning was coming on (this was OK, just slack) but then he hit me with the bad news!

The sump gasket is completely shot, it's split and is coming out at the edges. Oil is leaking everywhere. He said it probably failed due to all the bolts being loose, which they were, and then me driving it home on the motorway. (as it was not leaking when I bought the car, certainly not like this anyway)

The thing is, he says to replace it the steering rack, lower wishbones, crossmember, and all manner of hydraulic systems have to be removed. FOURTEEN HOURS labour! And then there's the oil change, sump gasket, and other bits and pieces. Plus the cam belt check. I'm waiting for the quote. Depends on his hourly rate I guess, but I'm expecting a bill of £1500 plus.
Would that be right in terms of time for sump gasket replacement? I'm sure it is, the guy is well respected in Porsche circles round here.

Hi LTG.. I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I wish I could help..Im sure some of the experienced guys on the forum will be able to offer some sound advise. Good Luck RT

Comiserations. I know how you feel. All part of the joy of classic ownership. Just hope you don't get too many bills like this too often. My '44s been pretty cheap this year until now. (Sub £250) Now it needs a new head & cam box properly rebuilt to do it right. Bet it ends up in 4 figures. Still we could be driving modern cars & have bills like that! And be board to death.....

Hi

Ummm how shall I put this politely.....

Hes talking tosh....

Go elsewhere....

Ring Paul Anderson and ask how much he charges lol

By the way "the guy is well respected in Porsche circles round here." is NOT the same as being well respected in 928 circles !!!!

All the best Brett

Hi

Hope this helps..its a copy of post from Rennlist 928 section....

"A group of us did a pan-and-motormount project about a year ago. With a couple of us at a time working on it, we consumed more than the best part of a day. That's with a lift and the right tools.

Dropped the steering rack and the crossmember to get access to the mounts and the pan. That allowed the pan to drop pretty much straight down. Others have mentioned that they were able to slightly lift the engine, lower the pan to the crossmember, then reach in and unbolt the pickup tube, dropping in into tha pan. Then slide the pan out. As Nicole mentions, mounts are a common mileage-related replacement task so the first method is probably the one you want to think about.

The original pan gasket is cork with no neoprene reinforcement, so any bit of squish on the sump bolts will push the gasket out. The torque spec for those 6mm sump bolts (10mm head...) is in inch-pounds, and most of them aren't accessible with a socket on the little click-stop torque scewdriver or the regular torque wrench anyway. So most of the work will be by feel/touch if you decide to try to just snug them a bit. On my '89 they were finger-loose. I pulled them up until they just touched the pan, then added 1/4 turn of tension. The seepage has slowed considerably but there's still a trace in the belly pan that occasionally make a spot on the garage floor. I have motor mounts in my future so the sump gasket will get done then too.

Many are recommending an improved gasket that's occasionally seen on E-bay. Others will chime in with links/sources/recommendations on this.

Common recommendation is to use Yamabond sealer on the gasket. Thick grey goo. There's a Hondabond adhesive that's the same stuff, by the way. Scooter places sell both. I'm not sure I'd be able to reinstall the oil pickup while reaching over the layer of grey matter, so the Yamabond may not be an option if you choose not to drop the crossmember.

After reading all this and after participating in that effort last spring, I gotta tell you that the $1k Devek cost of motor mounts and sump gasket is sounding pretty sweet right now. Have you had a local quote on replacement? Consider that the mounts, even on sale here, are almost $400/pr. It would take me the better part of two days lying on the floor, and that easily equates to more than the $600 labor cost, at least here where business time constantly crowds home 928 play time. There are seasons when I'd do this myself in a heartbeat, calling it therapy. Or make it a home tech-session item with some friends and some steaks. This isn't turning into one of those seasons for me, however."

Soooo...although its complicated...its NOT 14 hours labour....

You didn't overtighten the bolts did you ??

Overtightening them in place WILL cause worse leaks...nipping them up A LITTLE will usually cure most leaks....

All the best Brett

I probably did overtighten them if they are just to be nipped up one quarter turn after they contact the sump pan. However the gasket was poking out of the sides before this so it was probably a lost cause anyway. I don't know if the "14 hours labour" quote includes the cam belt work....but you guys are saying that it took two of you the best part of a day to get the sump off anyway? So it's going to take one guy two days if that's the case?

Let's see what his quote is. If he's charging £40 per hour it's probably OK but if it's £80 it's not going to get done....I don't have the money. If it's too high I'll just let him do the cam belt adjustment and take the car back. I've tried repeatedly to contact Paul Anderson but he's never replied to my voicemails/emails. There is a 928 specialist in Bolton I could try though.
The reason I took it to the local guy is that the cam belt warning was coming on, and driving further than absolutely necessary seemed like asking for trouble. The local guy is only 6 miles away, and the "toothed belt service" warning came on about 15 times during that short drive. I was just waiting for the "bang" that would signal the end of the road for my 928....fortunately it did not happen.

Have looked at a picture of the gasket and it's quite narrow. It's going to be bad if it's sticking out of the seam and cracked?

Hi

To actually check the cambelt takes around 10 minutes max..

Paul Anderson...try emailing him...I realise hes a pain to get to talk to but hes worth it...

He is the foremost expert by FAR in the UK....

All the best Brett

Thanks for the advice, I've sent Paul Anderson another email just now.
I asked the guy to take off the covers and check what had been replaced, as the previous owner could not remember if he had rebuilt the tensioner. I'm assuming that he's done this and not just checked the belt tension. I know it does not take long to check. I got the cover off in under 30 minutes myself, and had never done it before.

I will have his quote tomorrow and will take it from there. I'll post the figures on here when I get them.

I'm a little wary of someone who says they can't remember whether they rebuilt tensioner or not - it's a fiddly process involving a handful of bimetallic washers so hard to forget! Unless the work was done by his mechanic and he just doesn't know if it was included?

A properly installed timing belt just wouldn't give the warning light symptoms described, unless the tension was set way too low (which means the correct tool not used to set it). properly set the belt would loosen a little in first few hundred miles, but usually this shows up as a warning light under very heavy acceleration/kickdown, not on normal throttle.

It's very possible that the warning light wire has just come adrift from its terminal, so giving continuous warnings.

Don't give up on contacting Paul Anderson. He's very fast (= less expensive), very expert and very honest. There really is no-one better to check out your car. He won't do any work which is not necessary, but will identify precisely what's needed and fix this at reasonable cost.

The local guy has quoted me £700 plus parts....not as bad as I thought.
Also the person who sold me the car has very kindly offered to do the job at a much reduced price, and he also said he would run me home (a round trip of over 250 miles!) after I took the car to him. Also he's offered to look at the air conditioning.
The problem is that the car can't really be driven far as it's really losing oil from the sump now (prob my fault for overtightening the bolts which has seen off the gasket for good) plus there's that "toothed belt service" warning.

So I can't get it to the seller or Paul Anderson, not for this job anyway. Still...£700 it could have been worse.

Are you not in the AA, they'll transport it to your destination if you 'breakdown on route'... or you could always hire a transporter trailer if you have somehing to tow it with...

I know you want to minimise bill, but if you're paying for labour to have new sump gasket then it's well worth fitting new engine mounts if old ones are collapsed (likely).

In fact when people have new mounts fitted, they are advised to fit new gasket at same time as it's essentially no extra work.

Yes that's good advice. I've asked him to inspect the engine mountings.

Just rang him and he said "I've got the crossmember off, and the engine mountings look OK" So that's alright then.

OK Lightning as long as your guy is confident he knows how to assess the mounts by visual inspection.

The easiest test does not involve getting under car at all. Just rev engine and if the engine rocks that's fine. If it stays stock still then mounts are shot and all that vibration is being transmitted through to body and transmission. Makes a world of difference when they are renewed.

I suppose at this stage it's not practical to do engine rock test, but worth checking when you get the car back even if it's a future project.

I did try revving the engine before, and the engine did not move at all. However I did not really rev it too high, as the cam belt warning came on.
However the engine is very smooth when driving the car, no hint of any vibrations or lack of refinement.

To be honest I just want to get the car back in a driveable condition, with no cam belt warnings or oil loss. I have not even driven it anywhere yet, and already have a bill for £1,000.
I'll have more money to spend on it next year. I really only have a maximum of £1,000 at the moment, although I do realise what you are saying, £300 now on engine mounts will save maybe another £500 to dismantle it again....but I don't have any more cash!