Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

Hi all,

After a long time teasing myself with various project car ideas I finally found space to get one, and bought Myself an '85 944 (square dash):






It had been sitting in dry storage for 15 years before being bought by an independent Porsche 'specialist' who did the basics to get it running again as well as a full semi-decent respray, however after working on it myself I've started doubting the guys work... (I'm no expert, but rear hub nuts should probably be more than finger tight... one new bearing seems to be dead already)

Anyway, engine has had new belts and seems to run sweetly. Some tapping, but i'm still hoping the tappets might un-seize themselves of their own accord.
I've made a small start on the bushes as the outer front ARB one's were degraded to the point of pushing themselves out of their mounts, the rest are high on the TODO list.
CVs have been cleaned and regreased after the NS started making noises - It was very dry and I figured they could all use some TLC.
I have a snag list as long as my arm to get on with as and when I have time.

On to the questions - This is my first time owning a classic car so I think I'm having a bit of difficulty determining what is normal for an old car and what could be pointing to issues, so prepare for silly questions.

Bump Steer - I've not driven other 944s to know if this is normal behavior or not, but I'm guessing not. Under relatively heavy cornering on a poorly surfaced road, a small bump will incur some bump steer decreasing the cornering radius. I'm hoping new bushes all round will solve this one, but thought I'd better ask!

Fumes in Cabin - I know, there's a search function! On buying the car there were fumes constantly unless the HVAC fan was on creating positive cabin pressure. Having replaced rubber gear stick boot and tightened the rear hatch latches this is gone, except when driving with the windows open and I get the smell far more faintly. Still not normal I presume? (Does windows open create a bit of negative cabin pressure?)

Variable Brake Assistance - after startup it takes a while for the brake assistance to build up, then once driving the level of assistance depends on how high the engine's been revving in the past 30sec or so. Is this to be expected or should I be looking for a vacuum leak? Nothing else seems to point to a leak.

There appears to be a slight coolant leak from the rear of the engine. I haven't been able to determine where it's coming from, any common culprits?

I'm certain more questions will pop up as I work through my very long snag list, but those are a good start Long term goal is to get it mechanically solid, then tidy up the interior (seats need re-trimming etc), then start playing with engine and suspension. Oh, and some nice Cookie Cutters.

Thanks in advance!

(I'm enjoying getting my hands greasy again, my daily is obviously far too reliable... touch wood)

nice

black not only the best looking colour but at least 5% faster than any of the other lesser colours

someone will be along soon to answer your questions

enjoy and welcome

You mention rear hub nuts loose!!

If you are talking about the big nut in the centre, that should be 369lbs/ft or 500nm

The brake assistance might be the non return valve in the servo not be shutting off

Fumes in the cabin could be the rear hatch seal or rear light clusters

Not sure on the leak from the rear of the engine, but I'm sure someone will be along to answer

Welcome. You're going to love it.

I'd say you're needing new bushes up front. Not difficult to do and not that pricey either. Check the rear castor mounts too - at back of wishbones. If all good get an alignment check. (Mine tramlined badly until I refreshed it all for example). You shouldn't be getting any strange feedback if it's all good.

Fumes after new seals, I'd say check the exhaust manifolds for cracks if you're certain the cabins tight.

Coolant from the rear of engine - I'd say check the return pipe running on the right of the engine above the exhaust manifolds. At the back of that you'll see some hoses that may need a nip on the jubilee clips or may even be perished - mine were.

My 2p

Thanks guys, I'm not regretting it yet! It has given me a new appreciation for modern cars though. (If you're wondering, my 944 is a decent bit older than I am)

Bushes shall be done. Keep meaning to get a price from OPC. Glad to hear that it definitely should't be doing that though

To check the exhaust manifold for leaks... start her up, have a minion put their hand over the exhaust and a visual/nasal check of the engine bay?

After a quick read the non-return valve sounds like a very good shout for the brakes. Sounds a pretty quick check too assuming it's accessible...

The rear NS Hubnut was indeed loose, to the extent that I put a breaker bar on it and added a turn to it with zero effort from the middle of the bar. More than a bit worrying! Apparently the Porsche 'specialist' had done wheel bearings, new clutch, new belts before my buying it... I have to wonder about the quality of the rest of the work.
I've had to replace the front brake discs so have had the front hubs apart, one was very loose, the other overly tight (judging by the haynes/clarks method of checking). I came away not 100% sure he'd done the work I have a receipt for as bearings showed light wear after 300miles. I've not got the experience to make a good judgement though.

Back to the rear, I torqued it up to approx 350ft-lb (by calculating where I needed to stand on the breaker bar) but the hub still had a lot of play in, so pulling that apart is the first job for the weekend!

Thanks for all the pointers!

And deLUX - Excellent Blog! I've spent a long time reading it. Very very helpful.

Cheers!

Minions are perfect for fault finding.

great looking car, hope you keep enjoying driving and working on it

its always good to see a car thats been off the road for a while back where it belongs!

Brian

The garage was needed for other cars this weekend, so I thought I'd just check the offside hub nut... same story, very loose. I also have two wobbly rear wheels, NS being a lot worse than OS. Is there anything this could be apart from bearings? (before I order new ones... I'd rather not take the hub apart to verify then leave while I wait for parts as I can't leave it in the garage at the mo)

I also took the day to look at some smaller bits...

One nice surprise - pumped up the spare tyre and it seems to hold air! Wasn't expecting that. Having said that, it looks as old as the car and I should probably get it replaced...

This was the first time the car's been left out in the rain since buying it... I was greeted by some good puddles in the boot - NS rear light seal is the culprit! Ribbon gasket sealant ordered, hopefully this will finally cure my fumy cabin too

Then I decided to have a shot at the front driving lights and indicators. The lenses are in poor condition, indicators are very dim, and driving lights seemed badly adjusted. First problem was that the plastic surrounds hadn't been taken off for the respray. Some very careful (and painful) work with a scalpel separated them pretty cleanly. Driving lights came out easily enough, although with a couple of broken screws. Lenses are chipped beyond the capability of wet and dry, glass polish and a orbital polisher to save. Big improvement though and I may leave those for now.
The units themselves don't match, with the NS being plastic and far lighter and the OS being metal and heavy:

I assume the plastic one is a newer part? (however still fitted a long time ago as the screws holding it were severely corroded)

Indicators have severely corroded reflectors:


The lenses are recoverable, so on the hunt for new units, or new units without lenses... Also new stainless screws all round!

What a fun saturday

if they say they replaced the bearings and you have now done the centre nut up tight, and they still wobble, they might have butchered the trailing arms.

find a parts picture to see how it fits together, might give you an idea

So I've finally got a rear hub apart! (I've been chucked out of the garage so had to wait for the weather)

Outer bearing and seal are perfect, new clean grease. Inner seal is non existent, bearing fell appart, loads of black grease and gunk in the middle of the hub, including lots of metal that has come out of the inner bearing race...

I'll let the pictures talk:




Wasn't there supposed to be a seal there??




Ah, found remains of a seal... and lots of bits of metal that used to be part of the inner bearing...





So as I have a receipt saying that these were replaced 300 miles ago, last September, I'm pretty pissed at that garage. I'm giving them a chance to respond then I'll stop giving them their anonymity and pop a warning in the praise/grumble section...

Definitely feel the need to check that they actually did other work they claimed to have now... such as replace belts...

Dam bodgers could have killed someone, that is appalling work from a garage, I would assume sod all else has been done, and go through the car bit by bit

Crikey - that is appalling - this bloody shower shouldn't be in business and bordering on a legal challenge for complete incompetence and motor trading standards...

I would agree that you check the other work that they have supposedly done - ie the belts - that is a major big worry if that has been skimped on.

I would also check the front lower wishbones and their mountings. The early models have a pressed steel arrangement, which, if coupled with a seized inner 'A' bush (ie where it is mounted onto the main body) have a tendency to split (metal fatigue) and thus collapse the suspension - I know this as a mate of mine experienced the problem - this problem is exacerbated if the battery housing floor is leaking...

The rear of engine water leak could be the corroded end of the metal thru' pipe, running along the exhaust manifold. Although it is crimped onto a rubber hose by a jub' clip, that joint could be suspect and worth a look. I found that on mine, only when I removed the pipe for painting and discovered the rusted eaten-away end. The complete metal pipe section, with it's mounting points, is quite expensive but can be saved with a new brazed end by a friendly workshop.

The front lamp units are available from a parts breakers no doubt...

A great project - but what a start to it...!

Dave CT

It certainly polishes up good.

Is that your FTO? I have had a couple of those myself.

Welcome

Nice looking car, hope you don't have too many troubles with it - they are a joy to drive

Thanks for the replies guys. I've put a note in the Praise/Grumble section of the forum. The 'porsche specialist' in question is Porsche Mode in Bristol. I got no response from him after sending picture evidence that he hadn't done the work

Spent today on it - old inner seal and bearing popped out easily enough. The seal was a little past it's best:



Then I got a bit distracted cleaning up the wheel arch, revealing lots of cracking underseal, a surprising amount of bare metal and the small beginnings of rust at the end of the sill.





Lots of dremel time later (I love that tool) it was all cleaned up, new underseal on the arch and around the sill, and a coat of hammerite over the easily accessible part of the swingarm (not a thorough job with the hammerite, but a little protection for now!)



After that I went back to the bearing, but couldn't get the old inner bearing ring off the stub axle. If anyone has any tips on that one I'd be grateful! (as per my other thread) A new pair of stub axles look to cost around £65 on ebay... I could possibly use the old inner bearing ring with the new bearing but it does show signs of wear so I'd rather not. Also it seems to be stuck in the wrong location on the stub axle...

flt505 - Thanks for the advice. The water leak seems to have fixed itself - she's been standing for over a month now with no puddles of any sort I'll take a look at the wishbone mounting points too. Need new bushings anyway!

Scott - Not my FTO, that's the gf's. We had a great chase up through the Cotswalds from picking the Porsche up - unfortunately the FTO is a decent bit quicker than the 944. (Which she loves!)