Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

Hello chaps, sorry for the lengthy post, I'll be using this thread as a sort of diary/reminder as work progresses!

I'm after any advice, guidance, ideas etc that anyone may care to give.

I've been running my early 944 as a daily for the last 5 months. 6000 miles of great fun.

However, the time has come to remove it from daily duties and turn it into something all together different; a true competition car.

I do historic rallying and the 944 just squeaks in to category against the likes of 911SCs, Escorts, Saab EMSs etc. I'm already entered into a few rallies at the end of the year and I genuinely think that the little porker stands a good chance of becoming properly competitive.

So, I need a plan of action. Some things will have to remain stock, others are given a more free reign.

My list of sorts at present is as follows:

1) Everything out, and I mean everyting down to and including sound insulation. Only the dash will remain. Will be replaced with either nothing (floors, footwells, boot) or aluminium (door cards). That's about it.

2) Seats x 2, probably lightweight Cobras as my navigator knows the company and gets goot rates.

3) Half cage (welded) - not sure whether a half cage is available off the shelf or to have one fabbed up once the interior is cleared. Either way definitely not a full cage needed as nav and I are both massive so will mean getting in/out is much easier.

4) Strengthening and protection. Full sump and underbody protection fabbed up as I don't think they're commercially available. Where do we all stand on uprated anti roll bars etc?

5) Suspension - undecided on this. I do know that the std ride height will be just about workable. Nothing lower though and would consider going up half an inch front and back. Also considering if any strengthening/plating will be required. Will be completely rebushed, probably with poly (this won't be a comfy car!) for longevity and strength.

6) Wheels - I've got 2 full sets of 15'' Cookie Cutters and will be keeping and running these. 90% of my rallying will be on a set of winter tyres for grip but decent road performance. Not bothered about wear. May consider a set of strengthened Conways or similar if I start burning through tyres like mad.

7) Engine - not considering anything really other than a decent refresh. I've got a couple of leaky sensors on the top of the block so they'll be getting attention. Will also do a precautionary belts, pulleys, waterpump and new rad + hoses just to keep things cool. The std 165 odd bhp will be more than adequate, especially with the lighter weight. What are performance air filter options like?

Safety - considering a decent competition fuel tank with plumbed in extinguishers in addition to full electrical cut off on nearside wing near a-pillar. I'll also be welding on front and rear permanent towing eyes.

9) Misc - I really want to find some window winders so I can delete the front electrics. Also considering using replacement poly for side windows. I think the rear hatch is just too weird a shape for non-glass to work. Also the knob in me wants to add a 4 spot light pod to the front, they just look cool!

I think that's about it for now.

The strip down will start in a couple of weeks when I'm back from holiday. I'm really looking forward to getting started.

Any thoughts or just general comments very welcome.

Cheers,

Ben

buy my 924 turbo which has already had the majority of the work required carried out. see the for sale section for details!

will cost you a few quid to prep the car from scratch, but im sure you already know that

i also have a 944 turbo shell which has already had all the interior seal sealer and sound matting removed, harness points installed, outer sills replaced, side mount seat rails welded in, and can have a cage built to your specs installed, as well as full dipping and seam welding if needed.

v5 present, perfect shell for you to reshell your bits in and do it properly along the way.

fire me a pm if either car is of any interest

thanks
nick

Thanks. Nick but I'm going to do mine, make it the car it was born to be:)

A few pics to start off with how it looks now. The photos do flatter it a bit!

On last rally, all stickers etc now taken off as below.

I think the 944 will be seen in a lot more rallies in the future

I agree. It has all the individual component parts to make a competitive car: strength, power, lightness, rwd, enough clearance.

The only complaint I've got about the whole car really is the location of the starter motor

Try 'Performance and Protection' for an off the shelf 944 half cage, about £300 + VAT I think. Or if you are stripping the car why not fit a full weld in cage but minus the top door bars. I've seen this done and it eases entry and exit but still offers a lot more protection than a half cage and has the added benefit of stiffening the shell.

Try 'Plastics 4 Performance' for plastic windows. They do also do a 944 rear screen but because of the shape it is quite expensive.

Just a point...... if you are stripping the car and fitting plastic glass, particularly if you do the rear, you will need to consider your weight distribution, as the car will end up light at the rear. Is the battery at the back on a 944 like on the 968 or under the bonnet? Could move this to the back if not already there and mount your extinguisher as far back as poss, but after that it starts to get more difficult.

Look forward to seeing it progress.

Thanks, really helpful post. I'll have a look at P&P's half cage. Good point on putting in a full cage and just missing out the door bars, I'll see what I can find on that.

As for the windows: well, I know what you mean but this won't be a track car. Even if I do some serious tinkering around the other cars in class will still only be able to dream of such a neutral handling setup and balance! At the moment I'm thinking one of two things: first just plexi the rear windows, second plexi both door windows and rear windows. The hatch will stay glass whatever way I do it. The decision will really come down to ventilation and whether I'm going to keep the heater/blower or not.

My suggestion for a rear section would be Rollcentre. Their rear will cost under £200 and if you ask then they will omit the brackets for the front, making it a damned sight safer. Personally Id include the front too, and fit it with the door bars, then remove the door bars if you need to. The ull front and rear section wouldnt make any difference to my ingress and egress and Im 6'3" and I weigh seventeen stones.

I heartily agree with the comment about weight loss and weight distribution. I have a polycarbonate hatch (two actually!) but I have found when fitting one to a series one car, that the rear ends up being so light that I have solved one problem and created another!

I removed the original glass hatch and replaced the windows with 4mm polycarbonate. I fitted gloop to all four tyres and removed the spare wheel, jack and tools. In the end I had lightened the rear too much and it appeared to affect the balance of the car. I fitted a lighter GRP bonnet and had I perservered with the car, then I would have moved the battery inboard. It isnt hard to add in copper cable what you lose somewhere else, and Im not convinced that moving the battery to the load area would have been ideal, but in the cabin behind the passenger seat would probably have been a good compromise. Not as far back as it could be, but far safer than under the bonnet, behind the centre of balance and not adding kilos of extra copper cable. Everything is a compromise...

I shed a great deal of weight by removing the window regulators completely and fixing the widows in their channels. I would cut my own side windows from a carefully made template and, if required, add a slider from Demon Tweeks for about £30 a side. To provide ventilation I added a clear scoop to the drivers side rear window and routed hose to where I wanted cooling (works well and very 'because racecar'). My series one car didnt have a sunroof, so I was reluctant to cut into it, but if yours does then you can fit a roof vent through the sunroof panel for a breeze on your face and an authentic rally look... )


Simon

Interesting Simon, thanks.

I'm pretty set on the half cage tbh, a combination of cost and general practicalities. Like you I'm 6'3'', carrying another stone and a half too! My navigator is a skinny thing but is a good 6'4''. Plus when we rally we are carrying a lot of kit. Conservatively 50kg in the boot, 20kg in the cabin minimum. My only other consideration is whether to go for a full external cage so I can carry a couple of spare wheels on the roof too. Needs some thinking about.

As for general lightening, I wonder if I'm just wasting time and money with plexi-ing the windows. Obviously there are good savings to be made there but it could be just making work for the sake of it.

All the interior is definitely coming out and I will get rid of the electric windows etc. The scoop is a good idea, I nearly did that on the DS but couldn't bring myself to cut through the roof! I'm not as precious about the 944 so cutting into the sunroof wouldn't pain me in the slightest. Plus, as you say, scoops = cool!

It is quite a departure from setting up a track focused car. The main thing playing on my mind is the suspension. It needs to be super strong, able to deal with 5 days of merciless beasting without failure and not cost the earth.

This morning I've been wasting quite a lot of time researching light pods for the front. They look so good but will kill the aero. That said I'm almost certainly going to get one...

Another way to alter the weight distribution subtlely is by removing the original washer bottle and motor and fitting a larger (possibly soft-bag type) into one of the spaces behind the rear wheels. Thats seven kilos at least that youre moving away from the vehicles nose and you can usefully increase the vehicles screen wash capacity by doing so.


Simon

Quick question: I'm almost certain I saw a thread on here or PCGB from someone selling a manual window winder kit suitable for the square dash. Am I imagining it!? I've tried searching like mad but can't find a thing...

Whichever way you go with the cage I would suggest Rollcentre Racing. Theyre very cheap for what they are, too. I looked for light pods a few years ago also, so if you find a vendor then Id be interested. Removing the lift up headlamps will save a good deal of weight which hangs over the front wheels. 937 GTS type lamps dont light the road as well as fresh original lights, but they weigh nowt and they look beyond cool.

Plating and seam welding I cant really help you with, unfortunately. I dont know whether anyone has had to add gussets and brackets to a 924/944 body for rallying, but I would imagine that the seam welding will be similar to that used on race cars (only differing by being overt and not hidden!). Id probably speak to Kevin Eacock about that as he has seam welded more 944s than Ive had four course dinners.

Even if the weight advantage isnt enough to sway you towards polycarbonate windows, then Id would suggest that their inherant safety is reason alone and by the time you have bought and fitted safety film to the glass windows, it wont have cost much, especially if you buy the polycarbonate well. Be careful as some vendors seem to ask outrageous prices for something that shouldnt cost a deal more than £25 per M². Remember too that that you can easily add inlets to the rear windows when theyre made out of PC.

This is Rollecentre Racing's rollcage page: http://www.rollcentre.com/rollcages

Their fitment list is now on a .pdf and it no longer includes prices, but they used to be around £350 for a full national spec cage including door bars and fitting kit, plus VAT. Martin Short told me that fabricating a rear without front section mounting brackets would be no problem / no charge. From memory the rear was about £165 plus VAT. The rear section is essentially the rear of Blue Book drawing number 6 and the whole cage is drawing number 6 with door bars.

Ive sent you a PM.


Simon