Steam powered 1987, 928 S4?

vinced1957 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:28 pm

Hi guys and gals,

I think I have a nasty bill looming in my car of 8 years!

If I can tap your knowledge and experience, of the symptoms that have appeared in the last week or so and ask for any tips or suggestions re pre-work diagnosis, before committing to heads off, it would be appreciated:

Lumpy idle when cold
Loss of coolant, about a litre per 50/100miles leading to coolant warning light on.
Lots of steam from the exhaust on overrun or parked, definitely not smoke.
Engine is relatively smooth once warm and no obvious loss of power.
No sign of oil water mix in oil filler or header pressure cap. Engine oil on dip stick is clean.

Car has done 160k miles, I have checked records back to 2000 and no sign of heads off, mileage then circa 100k miles, so I’d guess heads have never been off.

Do you concur that head gasket is the most likely failure? Any thoughts on replacement head gaskets, stock parts or modern material options from the market?

I've had some pricing from the Main dealer that has serviced the car for a few years and some "specialists" in North London.

Before I commit, I'd appreciate any comments or advice you might feel pertinent to my situation?

Thanks in anticipation.

Vince Dallimore-North London Herts & South Essex

Toby944 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:02 pm

Wow, has this happened since the Duxford run?? Looked rock solid when I saw it.

Nick at Auto 2000 in Kempston (bit of a drive) specialises in front engines Porsches and has looked after my 44 for eight years so maybe worth a call? Alternately Jon at JMG Porsche is on this forum and is a wealth of info and advice. Well worth a PM... if he doesn't respond to your post anyway. Both have given me great advice in the past.

Sorry I cant be of any direct help, hope its not too eye-watering a bill.

Lee 944 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:06 pm

Hi Vince

Brett always says you should use a block tet kit. He'll be along in a minute to specify what you need.

Brett928S2 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:44 pm

Lee 944 wrote:

Hi Vince

Brett always says you should use a block tet kit. He'll be along in a minute to specify what you need.

Hi

Yes...a "BLOCK TESTING KIT" is the answer here.... I have one by the way, and would willingly run a test for you for free, IF it would make it to Bournemouth ?

Basically its a tube with a BLUE liquid in it that you use a little rubber puffer to draw the gases through... if it fails by turning green or yellow then its one of three things...1, failed head gasket, 2 Cracked head ( unusual) 3, cracked block (unheard of in 928s)

You can buy the kits on Ebay and I could talk you through using it over the phone if it helps ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Block-test-ki ... 2a27fba9b0

All the best Brett

vinced1957 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:10 pm

Brett, thanks for the offer. Car is in North London and I've been advised to avoid driving any distance.

I am assuming porsche centre will undertake checks before dismantling, I'll be seeking advice on their approach before having the car trailored to them.

Have you any advice re selection of head gaskets, I see 928 motor sports offer 3 types? Again a discussion point pre work.

Thanks for responding.

Vince

Brett928S2 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:24 pm

vinced1957 wrote:

Brett, thanks for the offer. Car is in North London and I've been advised to avoid driving any distance.

I am assuming porsche centre will undertake checks before dismantling, I'll be seeking advice on their approach before having the car trailored to them.

Have you any advice re selection of head gaskets, I see 928 motor sports offer 3 types? Again a discussion point pre work.

Thanks for responding.

Vince

Hi Vince

To be honest , you would be better (and a LOT cheaper) running a block test yourself.... or getting ANY local garage to run the test for you, most local garages will have a block testing kit....

Two reasons...

1, Main dealers have a nasty habit of pulling the heads , rather then running a block test FIRST

and dont forget main dealer labour rates are normally £120 + vat per hour....

2, If it passes the block test (unlikely in my opinion) its could be just a leak (as in water pump or piping or rad) etc...

If I am correct and it would fail a block test, then you KNOW the heads/head gasket needs doing and you can shop around for a price from experts in 928s such as Paul Anderson etc.... the difference in price between an Independant and a Main OPC WILL be THOUSANDS !!!!!!!

All the best Brett

tr7v8 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:14 pm

Brett928S2 wrote:

vinced1957 wrote:

Brett, thanks for the offer. Car is in North London and I've been advised to avoid driving any distance.

I am assuming porsche centre will undertake checks before dismantling, I'll be seeking advice on their approach before having the car trailored to them.

Have you any advice re selection of head gaskets, I see 928 motor sports offer 3 types? Again a discussion point pre work.

Thanks for responding.

Vince

Hi Vince

To be honest , you would be better (and a LOT cheaper) running a block test yourself.... or getting ANY local garage to run the test for you, most local garages will have a block testing kit....

Two reasons...

1, Main dealers have a nasty habit of pulling the heads , rather then running a block test FIRST

and dont forget main dealer labour rates are normally £120 + vat per hour....

2, If it passes the block test (unlikely in my opinion) its could be just a leak (as in water pump or piping or rad) etc...

If I am correct and it would fail a block test, then you KNOW the heads/head gasket needs doing and you can shop around for a price from experts in 928s such as Paul Anderson etc.... the difference in price between an Independant and a Main OPC WILL be THOUSANDS !!!!!!!

All the best Brett

Not convinced that a block test is 100% check for a head gasket issue, it will only show if there are combustion gases in the coolant & not all HG blow that way. though from the way Vince described it his probably is.
OPC do not charge club members £120 an hour, a lot have a much lower rate circa £65ish for older cars & can go lower for long term jobs. The cost difference maybe in parts as some indies but not all can source cheaper parts, although again for club members we get discount on parts.

Brett928S2 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:47 am

tr7v8 wrote:

Brett928S2 wrote:

vinced1957 wrote:

Brett, thanks for the offer. Car is in North London and I've been advised to avoid driving any distance.

I am assuming porsche centre will undertake checks before dismantling, I'll be seeking advice on their approach before having the car trailored to them.

Have you any advice re selection of head gaskets, I see 928 motor sports offer 3 types? Again a discussion point pre work.

Thanks for responding.

Vince

Hi Vince

To be honest , you would be better (and a LOT cheaper) running a block test yourself.... or getting ANY local garage to run the test for you, most local garages will have a block testing kit....

Two reasons...

1, Main dealers have a nasty habit of pulling the heads , rather then running a block test FIRST

and dont forget main dealer labour rates are normally £120 + vat per hour....

2, If it passes the block test (unlikely in my opinion) its could be just a leak (as in water pump or piping or rad) etc...

If I am correct and it would fail a block test, then you KNOW the heads/head gasket needs doing and you can shop around for a price from experts in 928s such as Paul Anderson etc.... the difference in price between an Independant and a Main OPC WILL be THOUSANDS !!!!!!!

All the best Brett

Not convinced that a block test is 100% check for a head gasket issue, it will only show if there are combustion gases in the coolant & not all HG blow that way. though from the way Vince described it his probably is.
OPC do not charge club members £120 an hour, a lot have a much lower rate circa £65ish for older cars & can go lower for long term jobs. The cost difference maybe in parts as some indies but not all can source cheaper parts, although again for club members we get discount on parts.

Hi Jim

If the OPC pull the heads...just to find the fault...even if he can get £65 per hour...thats well over a grand...

.. and once they have got it in bits...hes screwed.... I would bet he would drive out of an OPC with a bill for SEVERAL THOUSAND....

You do realise that for an OPC its ENGINE OUT to pull the heads on a 928 ? With all the hours that entails....

Its not the way I would do it, but its the book way

All the best Brett

vinced1957 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:56 am

Interesting debate, opc v "specialist", currently opc is quoting cheaper than the latter by over £1k, with a full parts list and pricing. Specialist is being very vague which is worrying. Price is not the be all here, piece of mind has a value. No inference of engine out, but I'll do lots of quizzing before signing up!

Thanks for the comments, I'll let you know how it goes, one for the magazine!

Vince

tr7v8 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:47 am

Brett928S2 wrote:

tr7v8 wrote:

[quote="Brett928S2] Hi Vince

To be honest , you would be better (and a LOT cheaper) running a block test yourself.... or getting ANY local garage to run the test for you, most local garages will have a block testing kit....

Two reasons...

1, Main dealers have a nasty habit of pulling the heads , rather then running a block test FIRST

and dont forget main dealer labour rates are normally £120 + vat per hour....

2, If it passes the block test (unlikely in my opinion) its could be just a leak (as in water pump or piping or rad) etc...

If I am correct and it would fail a block test, then you KNOW the heads/head gasket needs doing and you can shop around for a price from experts in 928s such as Paul Anderson etc.... the difference in price between an Independant and a Main OPC WILL be THOUSANDS !!!!!!!

All the best Brett

[/quote]
Not convinced that a block test is 100% check for a head gasket issue, it will only show if there are combustion gases in the coolant & not all HG blow that way. though from the way Vince described it his probably is.
OPC do not charge club members £120 an hour, a lot have a much lower rate circa £65ish for older cars & can go lower for long term jobs. The cost difference maybe in parts as some indies but not all can source cheaper parts, although again for club members we get discount on parts.[/quote]

Hi Jim

If the OPC pull the heads...just to find the fault...even if he can get £65 per hour...thats well over a grand...

.. and once they have got it in bits...hes screwed.... I would bet he would drive out of an OPC with a bill for SEVERAL THOUSAND....

You do realise that for an OPC its ENGINE OUT to pull the heads on a 928 ? With all the hours that entails....

Its not the way I would do it, but its the book way

All the best Brett

[/quote]

I understand & not sure whether the OPC would do engine out or not, as for the pricing are there ay indies doing £65 per hour or less? so pricing will be similar, maybe cheaper or more.
But I was just clarifying that we don't get charged £120 per hour for an OPC, well not always anyway.

Lee 944 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:22 pm

OPC price matched my local Indy, £50 per hour and 10% off parts with my TIPEC membership. I usually go with OPC for repairs and get 2 year warranty, and Indy for servicing................... but not always.

jezzyjet · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:18 am

Hi Guys ,,

I must have had a right result !!,I had both my head gaskets done ,Heads skimmed , a few new valve guides and a couple of broken studs replaced , full engine gasket set which (trade price) was around £250,00 ,The skim work etc I think was around £220.00 ,And the rest labour Total around £850.00 , Local mobile mechanic who has worked on a few 928"s in the past did the work, Heads were sorted by Cranks and bearings off Ordnance road ,Enfield North London,

Jezzy

Brett928S2 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:03 am

jezzyjet wrote:

Hi Guys ,,

I must have had a right result !!,I had both my head gaskets done ,Heads skimmed , a few new valve guides and a couple of broken studs replaced , full engine gasket set which (trade price) was around £250,00 ,The skim work etc I think was around £220.00 ,And the rest labour Total around £850.00 , Local mobile mechanic who has worked on a few 928"s in the past did the work, Heads were sorted by Cranks and bearings off Ordnance road ,Enfield North London,

Jezzy

Hi Jezzy

Wow thats an amazing price

with that sort of luck you can buy my next lottery ticket lol...

Did he pull the whole engine or remove the heads in situ ?

All the best Brett

jezzyjet · **Posted:** Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:22 am

Hi Brett

In situ , and outside! I had to do a bit of running around to get the heads done, but I thought it was a good result as I recon it would cost as much to get an average 4 cylinder family saloon sorted at a main dealer at that price!!

Jezzy

Martin & Kim 6853 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:44 pm

Hi Vincent, how's the rebuild coming on?? Any surprises??

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Steam powered 1987, 928 S4?

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