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88 S roll bar upgrade.
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Author:  t3rra [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  88 S roll bar upgrade.
Got a few questions, thought MIT get answered easyer on it own tread. 

I'm thinking off upgrading my roll bar size while I'm replacing the broken strap drop link. 

I think iv got a 24/25 mm roll bar, iv come 2 this concolson by using an adjustable spanner and mesurinh the distance between the opening. 

So I'm thinking off going 2 a 26.8 front and 18mm rear. The front will also use the triangle stiffing brackets

I understand I will need a larger size drop link on the hanger. With some help from u guys all ready, thanks dave. Would I need 2 change the drop link on the wish bone as well? 
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt385_386 ... ar-Bushes/

Looking at this do I have a 25.5 mm bar? And there for the right size clamps? 2 upgrade 2 a 26.8 bar. Dont matter as I'm going 2 replace both as mine had broken. Will check my rear size bar in the same way tonight. So far I can only see 2 sizes 16/18 mm. ( 20 mo30 )  I think with the front become so stiff I should go 4 the lager size on the rear 2 match.

Thanks 
Author:  DaveM [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Evening, me again

The PET only shows one clip and one hanger for all 944's post 87. So with yours being an '88, I think you have the correct clips and drop links/hangers for any of the front ARB's. You will have to buy bushes for whichever bar you upgrade to, but that should be it. Except for replacing the broken clip.

The PET also shows 2 ARB's for the 944S, 21.5mm and 25.5mm diameters. With you measuring 25mm 'ish, I'd guess yours is 25.5mm.

For the rear, the retaining clips and drop links are again all the same across the range, so all you'd need is the bushes to match the ARB and your done. The rear ARB's come in 14mm, 16mm, 18mm and 20mm. (then there's the 19mm 968CS)

My personal opinion is that you should stick to a set of ARB's. If you get the 944 M030 front ARB get the 944 M030 rear ARB. I think Porsche knew what they were doing when it comes to the balance of the car, so stick to the ARB's that give you the same balance.

Hope that helps :)
Author:  J.J. [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
I doubt you will notice the difference between 25.5 & 26.8! Lot of cost for little improvement. You should go the whole hog if your doing it.
Author:  t3rra [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Firstly, thank you dave 4 an informative reply.

Jj I was thinking the very same thing, 1.3mm dint seem like much even at a 5 percent increase. But then why would Porsche made 2 so close in size. ? I'm guessing but the stiffness off the bar must increase more then the 5 percent of it diameter increase.

I was thinking with the triangle sirport brackets. The 26.8bar while feel more like a 30 mm bar any way? So any upgrade on the rear roll bar should help. Poly bushes will stiffen up the bars as well?

As 4 Porsche knowing best, then why weren't these triangle bracket invented in stead off the larger bar? Other the markets and model definition, I'm sure they no a lot more then me. But I'm just pointing it out.

I'm thinking the roll bar prevent the struts acting indeinpendentlt, gives the flat affect when connering spreading the load across

As 4 blancing, a 86 turbo has a 24 mm front bar and 18mm rear? Don't no if the pre 87 hangers change the
the stiffness off the bar. But 87 turbo had 26.8 front and 18mm rear. Where's as an s2 has 16mm rear and the same 26.8 front? I'm sure spring rates have 2 be taken in 2 account as well.

In all fairness I v only got an S and was thinking a 2nd hand bar rather then mo30 new upgrade. Do bars strengthen and stiffness change thought use and time?

How much is the mo30 roll bar package?
Author:  PaulSmith [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
t3rra wrote:
How much is the mo30 roll bar package?


Last time I priced it up it was about £350 front and back including the bushes from Exeter OPC, but Richy_S will have a more accurate price as he's just bought a set.

As DaveM said, they will fit into your existing hangers, its just that the bushes are thinner to accommodate the wider bar
Author:  DaveM [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
I ordered the front from Chester OPC for £147 +VAT but decided to stick with the 20mm rear bar so no idea about that. A full set of poly bushes (including the wishbones etc) for the front was £165 from Larkspeed.
Author:  t3rra [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Edited my post, did a quick spell check but didn't seem 2 paste it all back in.

So dave M did u already have A 20 mm rear bar fitted?

It will be awhile till I can afford new stiffer springs and shocks, and I'm runnin the original set up. I thinking the turbo size bars will be plenty 4 the cost.

I could get a new front bar £200 then 4 m030, wonder how much a new 26.8 bar is? Noticed the ome rubber bushes triple in price from 25.5-26.8 but as I'm going poly don't think it will matter. If I got new front bar I would then need a rear 2 macth. Plus the front bushes and 968 castor mounts.


Can see a 10 pound repire becoming like a 500 pound up grade. I think r try and stick 2 the 2nd turbo size., with new bushes and hanger strips, drop link.

What are the castor mounts, were are they located on the car? :roll:

Thank you all.
Author:  DaveM [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
My car left the factory with the 20mm rear ARB, I think it was standard on all M030 944's.

I guess you should spend what you want to on the upgrade. If you had a wedge of cash burning a hole in your pocket, it would be a set of KW shocks, 30mm front ARB, 19mm adjustable rear ARB, poly bushes throughout, support brackets, geometry, etc. However that's going to set you back probably just the wrong side of £2k. At the other end you should be able to get a set of 944 M030 ARB's off ebay to your door for less than £100 and also on ebay a full set of poly bushes for £265. Then you can save up for a GAZ coilover kit.

The 968 castor mounts are the brackets at the back of the front wishbones. They basically just replace the 944 thick D shaped bush with a thinner O shaped bush. I got mine awhile ago from Porschapart for £90.
Author:  t3rra [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Dave, so you car came with rear m030 bar but not front? £265 on the bushes! Would it be worth been selective, with poly 2 save on cash? If so which are the main ones 2 befit from poly?

If I'm going 2 change any bushes in the front wish bone should I do the castor mounts at the same time. Can these be changed on there own with out disturbing the bushes?
Don't want 2 do the job twice. Also can this be down from the road side.

Thznks all
Author:  DaveM [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
My car came with M030 both bars, which at the time was 26.8mm at the front and 20mm at the back. The 30mm bar was only fitted to the 968CS.

If you change both ARB's and want to do the minimum then you'll only need to change;
2 bushes in the middle of the front ARB
2 bushes at the ends of the front ARB
2 bushes in the middle of the rear ARB

Recommended Retail Prices for Powerflex bushes are here,
http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/968+%281992-1995%29%2C+944+S2+%281985+-+1991%29-225/1.html

The more bushes you change the better because the ones on you car are probably 22 years old and way past their best, but anything else is optional. The 968 castor mounts are expensive and if I hadn't bought them about a year ago I'd probably just have bought the D shaped bushes for the 944 mounts. However Porsche do recommend they are fitted if you are running wheels any bigger than standard. If you change the wishbone bushes and/or the castor mounts you really should have the tracking done, so change all the front bushes at the front to save you doing things twice.

You should be able to take the front ARB off, which is only 6 bolts and do the wishbone bushes one side at a time, then fit the new ARB and bushes. I'm not so sure about the back because I'm not changing mine I haven't really looked at how that is done. The only thing you'll need a garage for is the tracking or you could take it to someone to do. I am also planning to take the cross member, rack and exhaust off to do the sump gasket, but you should be able to do just the front bushes without a garage.
Author:  t3rra [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Well I'm running 18" so I guess that's a no brainer really. I'm sure it could befit from an alinement any way. Will poly bushes thought out make the car really bumpy?

I'm having my rack done soon but if I can dongle work myself I rather would. Iv also got 2 fit new disc and pads soon. Is this all posable in a days work? Just the brake lines that worry me as iv never changed them b4. Got some corrsion and was honing 2 go braided.

With the alinement is possible 2 make some reference marks on the floor and use a string line and a level ? Lol I can set buildings out heard this was once the done way. ?
Author:  DaveM [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Fitting discs and pads shouldn't take very long if you can get the disc retaining screws out. Blake lines and the rack I can't comment on because I've never fitted any.

The alignment is very important to the handling so if you don't know what you're doing then best to give it to someone who does. I've got a quote of £90 for a 4 wheel alignment from a local specialist with the right kit. Money well spent in my opinion.
Author:  J.J. [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Shop around for alignment. Mine cost £25 & only took half an hour. 4 wheel laser. The caster mounts are an easy upgrade. Got them on mine. Poly bushes cheaper than rubber but will make it very hard. Wouldn't do with the state of the roads around here. I'm sticking with rubber as mines a road car. Promax were flogging a new Spax kit thats supposed to be good.
Author:  t3rra [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
Mine is a road car, my ownly drive. I think poly seem more expensive, is it worth mixing some poly with rubber?

There was a cheap 26.8 roll bar on eBay I thought was going 2 be mine, but the seller ended the listing hours b4 as there was not bids. :( so I'm looking 4 a set off roll bars now
Author:  J.J. [ Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 88 S roll bar upgrade.
New bars are £350 unless you can find a good set on ebay. A set of new Spax adjustables will be £500 from Promax. The shockers will make a much bigger difference. Do the bars after if you must! They only effect turn in. I think I would be upping the spring rates first myself. I'm happy with the 25.5s with brackets. Car is balanced & turns in flat. Maybe at higher speeds on track. (If you can find a track that doesn't have a speed limit!) they would make a difference. Looking at new adjustable shocks myself.
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