Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

Hi,

I'm looking for a daily driver with a bit of character and I'm thinking about buying a 944. I've got a second car for track days and the like so I'm not too worried about performance, but I'd like something with a bit more fun factor than my current Focus, while still keeping a degree of practicality.

I'm looking for any general advice on buying, but I also have a couple of specific questions:

* What differences are there in the ownership experience between the earlier (square dash) cars and the later (oval) ones? I much prefer the interior of the earlier car (I love that baby-Daytonna instrument pod!) and they seem to be slightly cheaper, but are there any drawbacks (or advantages) to them? Which in the whole 944 range would you choose for regular use?
* How easy is it to fix or replace a cracked dash (particularly on an early example)?
* How big a problem is rust? Do they all have some?
* What's involved in patching a section of front seat bolster?
* Do you think they can live outside still without going downhill?
* Random one, but has anyone managed to fit a mountain bike in the boot (with the seats down)?
* Can anyone recommend an insurer who'll cover the car even if it lives outside and is used for occasional commuting?
* Can someone suggest a price guide (again, particularly for the early 8v), what sort of condition would you find at various price points?

Specifically, one of the cars I've seen has a patch of rust on the bottom of the rear wing (I think it's the wing panel) at the very bottom of the panel, about 3" forward of the rear wheel arch. Can anyone suggest what would be involved in fixing this and how much it would cost professionally? It's otherwise a very smart car, I'm just keen to find out if this could be an issue in the future.

Hi & welcome

Buyers guide under the header of the 944 group.

* What differences are there in the ownership experience between the earlier (square dash) cars and the later (oval) ones? I much prefer the interior of the earlier car (I love that baby-Daytonna instrument pod!) and they seem to be slightly cheaper, but are there any drawbacks (or advantages) to them? Which in the whole 944 range would you choose for regular use?

Contentious issue here but I prefer the later car with oval dash for the following reasons:- A. Although I'm a SA I'm big in the thighs so preferred the space because the wheel is higher. B. The ventilation is very much better & in the summer this was important.
* How easy is it to fix or replace a cracked dash (particularly on an early example)?
Someone does an overlay in GRP which you glue on, not ideal but easier than doing a dash swap. I cover mine up outside as it is uncracked at the mo.
* How big a problem is rust? Do they all have some?
Check carefully the newest is around 19 years old & yes they were galvanised but rot is now becoming an issue. Sills especially. Pics of mine which were dire are here but be sitting down when you look. http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/porsche_repair_pics
* What's involved in patching a section of front seat bolster?
Talk to someone like southbound they are the experts on Pork interiors & can advise.
* Do you think they can live outside still without going downhill?
Mine lives outside,my polishing orientated friends may have a different comment but it seems OK. I give mine a good wax around Sept & Oct & stay on top of the leaks & it seems OK.
* Random one, but has anyone managed to fit a mountain bike in the boot (with the seats down)?
I believe you can.
* Can anyone recommend an insurer who'll cover the car even if it lives outside and is used for occasional commuting?
Have a ring around, you may not get a classic policy as some don't like either commuting or parked outside. Hagerty are flexible on parking outside. When mine was my only car & a daily driver I found various Co's who were happy to insure it.
* Can someone suggest a price guide (again, particularly for the early 8v), what sort of condition would you find at various price points?
Not sure any price guide is truly accurate. There is some idea on my buyers guide, a concours 8V will be around 4-5K A daily driver 2-3K.
Keep a thousand back from your budget for the inevitable repairs in the first few months.

What he said! Price depends on condition. Worth searching for a really good one as the little extra it costs will save you £'s.
Join the club first & go out in a few. You can find very good ones if you put the effort in & are prepared to travel. Then you won't buy a headache. (The voice of experience )

as above, also early 944's don't have power steering and are a bit lighter, so slightly quicker

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread.

I also would like to get a 944, to use as my main car - which is just at weekends most of the time. My other motor is an 86 VW T3 campervan, so thought an 80s Porsche would complement it nicely.

I'm looking at S2s and turbos. My head tells me that an S2 would be more sensible, but there don't seem to be many good ones for sale at the moment.

I've been searching the ads for a few weeks now, and am planning to have a look at a couple this weekend. I'm looking to get the best one I can, and am willing to pay at the top end of the price scale in the hope that I will end up spending less keeping it on the road, at least initially.

I think the ones I am looking at are perhaps a bit overpriced, but are the most promising ones I can see. What do you think?

The first one is an 89 turbo SE, which hasn't been used much in the last 10 years (owner lived abroad), and is effectively being recommissioned now. The dealer (Cridfords) is changing the belts and giving it a going over. I'm a bit concerned they might cut some corners as everything they spend on it is less profit for them. Any particular things to look out for on a car that has been standing for a while, hopefully in a garage? Is it generally a bad thing? I haven't seen the car yet, as it wasn't available to drive (belts change in progress) but can notice that the driver's seat bolster is worn (normal for a 100k car?) and it looks as if the PORSCHE script at the back has been sprayed over, but oddly the lines on the back right are still there. I would be really grateful for your opinions - perhaps you think it is stupid money for what it is.
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1179414.htm

The second possibility is an early turbo (86), which looks very clean, but again hasn't been used much recently (just a show car). Lots of money - I would just get it dirty, as I want a car I can drive and have to park on the street. Again would be great to get your opinion on it.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C103953/

If you know of any other good turbos or S2s for sale, then would be great if you could point me towards them. I'm a bit fussy on colour - would prefer silver or black - not white or red (though I know they are faster).

Thanks all.

944s are superb cars.... find a good one and you wont be disappointed. For me the Oval dash seems better put together, but can see appeal of the earlier cars.

FWIW I managed to fit two bikes in the back of my S2 (admittedly, both the wheels came off but I did take the bike to Cannock with no problems.

I actually have a 924S (same engine/running gear as early 944) and a 944S2 (new shape dash/interior) and as said previously the newer dash does have much improved ventilation and more modern looks. However I personally prefer the square dash and particularly the simplicity of things such as the heater which works from cables rather than the most complex set up of solenoids and potentiometers. I still prefer driving the 924S to my 944S2 it feels much more nimble and not that much slower and unlike eaarly 944s it has power steering, sunroof, windows, mirrors and hatch release.

I think you have two options to set your heart on a particular model and search forever for the right one, or open up to a wider model choice and then look for the best condition and maintained one you can afford, there are some really great older cars out there much better looked after and pampered than some of the later models which tend to sell for higher prices.

Definitely. There are things I prefer about the earlier cars, but I think I'd also appreciate the better ventilation and improved driving position on the later cars, so it's swings and roundabouts. The turbo is the only model I've more or less ruled out (due to the extra complexity, insurance and the general overkill for a daily driver).

Insurance-wise my best quote so far was via Adrian Flux. My other car is insured with Hagerty, as was my previous toy, and they're superb, but I've spoken to them and the bottom line is you have to have a primary car insured with another company.

ETA Would definitely include a smart late (87/88) 924S in that too. That said, there was a time when they were even more undervalued than the 944, but the prices seem to have equalised these days so they're a less obvious bargain now. I've heard some people remark that the 944 was better screwed together than the 924 (even in S trim) is that true do you reckon? And if so, would it still have any bearing 25 years later?

Hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread. I'm in the same situation, and didn't want to start another "thinking about a 944" thread...

I also would like to get a 944, to use as my main car - which is just at weekends most of the time. My other motor is an 86 VW T3 campervan, so thought an 80s Porsche would complement it nicely.

I'm looking at S2s and turbos. My head tells me that an S2 would be more sensible, but there don't seem to be many good ones for sale at the moment.

I've been searching the ads for a few weeks now, and am planning to have a look at a couple this weekend. I'm looking to get the best one I can, and am willing to pay at the top end of the price scale in the hope that I will end up spending less keeping it on the road, at least initially.

I think the ones I am looking at are perhaps a bit overpriced, but are the most promising ones I can see. What do you think?

The first one is an 89 turbo SE, which hasn't been used much in the last 10 years (owner lived abroad), and is effectively being recommissioned now. The dealer (Cridfords) is changing the belts and giving it a going over. I'm a bit concerned they might cut some corners as everything they spend on it is less profit for them. Any particular things to look out for on a car that has been standing for a while, hopefully in a garage? Is it generally a bad thing? I haven't seen the car yet, as it wasn't available to drive (belts change in progress) but can notice that the driver's seat bolster is worn (normal for a 100k car?) and it looks as if the PORSCHE script at the back has been sprayed over, but oddly the lines on the back right are still there. I would be really grateful for your opinions - perhaps you think it is stupid money for what it is.
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1179414.htm

The second possibility is an early turbo (86), which looks very clean, but again hasn't been used much recently (just a show car). Lots of money - I would just get it dirty, as I want a car I can drive and have to park on the street. Again would be great to get your opinion on it.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C103953/

If you know of any other good turbos or S2s for sale, then would be great if you could point me towards them. I'm a bit fussy on colour - would prefer silver or black - not white or red (though I know they are faster).

Thanks all.

[reposted as my first post above had to be approved and then got backdated to further back in the discussion ]

The major thing is the condition of the car. Not the model. These are all 20+ years old. Join the club first you guys & go out in some. There as different as chalk & cheese. Ask on piston heads & the cry goes up. "Get an S2" Guys pop up on here from time to time. I just got an S2 but it won't pass the mot. Been ripped off............Condition is the key. Not what a road tester said when the cars where new.

the cridfords car is a bit overpriced in my opinion, the concours car has been for sale for quite a while, so perhaps people thinking the same as you, shame to get it dirty, just keep looking, theres one out there with your name on it

The Turbo is really nice, but I would want to stick it in the garage and leave it there in case it got dirty.

They say its a better thing if cars are used to keep them in top condition and I have a story on one of my 944's.

Many years ago I had a 88 Lux and it was in lovely condition with full history. It had not been used much for about 6 months. It was a third car so not left standing a such but I would only give it a blat once a fortnight and pop her away for another couple of weeks.
Eventually I decided to sell it as got a company car.
I sold it to the first buyer and on the way home he blew the engine to pieces. He sued me and won. I paid for a nice new engine for him rather than take the car back. (The judge gave me the choice)
Now I will never know why it happened, but I suspect the lack of use had something to do with it? Not sure what you do to avoid that when buying a car that has not been used much? To add it wasnt a cam belt failure.

EMC did tell me that 944s do not take well to a lack of use. My engine being a prime example (piston slap below 3k due to a badly scored bore (It did about 12,000 miles in the past 4 years).

As said don't really look at the mileage of the '44, but what has been done, the condition of the car etc. As for not going for an S2 I'm not too sure. Yes they have a couple more potential problem areas and you pay a bit more, but recently I have seen some ropey 2.5s and 2.7s for sale that go for S2 money with people thinking that they are saving money since the guides come to that conclusion. Go for a car on condition and where it has come from (what is the guy's house like, is he being a moron etc.?)

IMO out of the Porsche, the 'cheapest' ones for motoring are the 924((S) Le Mans), and the S1 (Pre 85) 2.5s but even they have some pricey bits but IMO they probably work out as much as a modern hot hatch to maintain (which before anyone says is not super cheap either)).