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 Post subject: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:17 pm 
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I'm part way through more restoration work on the turbo and as I now have the torque tube removed so I can tackle the RMS, I'm considering if I should get the torque tube rebuilt?

I've spun the torque shaft by hand and there does not appear to be any play or grinding but there is some noise (kind of like a skateboard wheel when spun). Could this be indicative of dry bearings? Is this normal or are rebuilt torque tubes totally silent?

Next question is if I did rebuild I've heard the C5 bearings that Porsche originally used are not available and that C4 should be used. I've also seen the super bearings from the US but they are pretty expensive! Possibly £1000 after taxes and customs duty for a set of 4....

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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:32 pm 
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I would think that they should be almost silent, any kind of dry rumble suggests trouble ahead

I have a bearing number somewhere I will look it up

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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:57 pm 
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I finally completely dropped the torque tube down earlier and recorded the noise, I can see the grease has come out of the bearings as well and the sound dry. Transmission end sounds the worse, maybe because of the additional weight of the coupler on the shaft?

I've contacted Augment Automotive and they are able to rebuild my existing torque tube with FAG C3 rated bearings (I believe the original were C5 and rated for high temperature). I've done some searching and can only find C3 off the shelf, some NOS C4 by INA on ebay and a reference to requesting C5 bearings which were C3 bearings that were re-worked by the supplier (SKF) to C5 tolerance.

There are also Constantine's Super Bearings from the US but after shipping and customs that would be the best part of £1000 in parts alone :shock:





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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:51 pm 
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Ouch, that’s a lot of money for some bearings

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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:07 am 
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Waylander wrote:
Ouch, that’s a lot of money for some bearings


Yes indeed!

http://www.blackseard.com/site/index.ph ... s&Itemid=3

$780 +shipping

£640 at current exchange rate

£768 +20% VAT

£798.72 + 4% duty

£806.72 + £8 Royal Mail Handling Charge

Postage could be expensive as well and not included.

I exaggerated slightly but still not cheap! the super bearings do come with new heavy duty bearing carriers though and are claimed to be suitable for v8 swaps and high power custom turbo engines etc...

Design 911 have some 9products bearings which come with a bearing carrier as well which is slightly different to the super bearings and about half the price -
https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod1470 ... =doofinder
£440inc VAT


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:04 am 
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Done a couple of rebuilds of t/t , it’s not that difficult . From memory 4x bearings were £30 and £20 to powder coat t/t . There’s a few guides online to follow .
I got mine from Wych Bearings 4x FAG 6006-2Z-C3 if that’s any help .


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:44 am 
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sgl1966 wrote:
Done a couple of rebuilds of t/t , it’s not that difficult . From memory 4x bearings were £30 and £20 to powder coat t/t . There’s a few guides online to follow .
I got mine from Wych Bearings 4x FAG 6006-2Z-C3 if that’s any help .


Cheers sgl :) those are the only ones available as far as I'm aware (searching both SKF and FAGs online database.

What method did you use to replace them and what condition were your bearing carriers in when you removed them?

Augment offer a full rebuild including painting for just under £500


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:54 pm 
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Removal I used 1/2 galvanised tube over spigot bearing end of driveshaft to protect it and a few heavy hits with a lump hammer then a 3" round post and a few heavy hits with a sledge to remove carriers after lubricating tube .
Installing I used the threaded bar method after using soapy water to lubricate tube again .
The carriers have all been reusable but I did have my local engineer pin the bearings in the carriers as I wanted to make sure this was done correctly .


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:53 pm 
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sgl1966 wrote:
Removal I used 1/2 galvanised tube over spigot bearing end of driveshaft to protect it and a few heavy hits with a lump hammer then a 3" round post and a few heavy hits with a sledge to remove carriers after lubricating tube .
Installing I used the threaded bar method after using soapy water to lubricate tube again .
The carriers have all been reusable but I did have my local engineer pin the bearings in the carriers as I wanted to make sure this was done correctly .


Thanks - I think I will do it myself then, I was trying to save time by farming jobs out but there is potential to save a few £££ keeping this job in-house :alien:

Just look at getting a 6ft length of 1/2" steel pipe :D


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:23 pm 
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sgl1966 wrote:
Removal I used 1/2 galvanised tube over spigot bearing end of driveshaft to protect it and a few heavy hits with a lump hammer then a 3" round post and a few heavy hits with a sledge to remove carriers after lubricating tube .
Installing I used the threaded bar method after using soapy water to lubricate tube again .
The carriers have all been reusable but I did have my local engineer pin the bearings in the carriers as I wanted to make sure this was done correctly .


Maybe I'm not doing it right but it has taken me almost 2 hours just to get about 1/2 metre of the shaft knocked out of the torque tube carrier. I'm using some galvanised conduit which fits nicely over the spigot end.

Have you had any that were difficult like this? I think that possibly the front bearing nearest the engine end of the tube is moving backwards with the shaft...

I'm using a sledge hammer and it's making a mess of the end on the galvanised conduit :lol:

Left it for today and will have another go tomorrow :?


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:46 am 
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Have a look on you tube , there is a lady showing how its done " 944 drive shaft removal from torque tube " . I have not had to much trouble removing driveshaft , might help to let a bit of oil penetrate over night to try and lube driveshaft . I have some spare carriers here if you need them , just be careful not to damage either end of driveshaft .


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:41 pm 
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sgl1966 wrote:
Have a look on you tube , there is a lady showing how its done " 944 drive shaft removal from torque tube " . I have not had to much trouble removing driveshaft , might help to let a bit of oil penetrate over night to try and lube driveshaft . I have some spare carriers here if you need them , just be careful not to damage either end of driveshaft .


Yes OZ951 - was watching her video, she made it look easy :lol:

Left it overnight and gave it some good hard smacks this afternoon and got through the first bearing and then it came it much more easier.

Had a look inside with a torch and can see that the bearing closest to the clutch has gone walkies towards the middle which explains why it was so hard!!!

Both ends are fine, I placed a pallet behind the torque tube and it landed perfectly between two slats of the pallet when it popped out.

Next job is removing the bearings but have to wait for my threaded bar to arrive...

Thanks :alien:

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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:05 pm 
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Bit more progress made - I ordered -
    16mm Threaded Bar
    10 x M16 full nuts
    5 x M16 Form G washers (17mm x 50mm x 3mm)
    125mm x 125mm sheet of mild steel (3mm thick)
    16mm blacksmiths drill bit (stepped)

Traced the bolt holes at the engine end of the torque tube carrier onto the metal sheet and drilled out one at each corner.

Then drilled a central 16mm hole in the sheet to pass the threaded bar through.

Followed the instructions on Clarks Garage, I used an old hand sanitiser bottle to apply a line of engine oil to the threaded shaft for lubrication.

After this I squirted neat fairy liquid at each end and a good amount through the shifter bracket mounting holes, then also sprayed a soap / water solution into the tube using a small spray bottle.

Then used my electric impact wrench and it pulled the bearings out in a few minutes! :bounce:

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Used some blocks of wood to step the metal sheet away from the torque tube flange when the bearings got to the end.

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As you can see most of the grease has come out of the bearings, 2 were quite dry and noisy, 1 not so bad and 1 still felt OK.

Now I have to decide how much money I want to spend replacing them, I definitely don't want to have to do this job again though!

I've seen some suppliers listing C4 bearings by SKF in the right size, so just need to decide if the bearing carriers and inner sleeves are worth it or if I need to get the whole lot...

Looking at the inner sleeves for the drive shaft I think two of them have cracks in but are still solid.

I have the earlier type bearing carriers that are stamped together, the outer rubber doesn't look too bad (the pictures look bad as they were covered in fairy liquid and grease).

Can anyone recommend a good paint to use for the torque tube once I've had it blasted? I don't fancy powder coat due to it being close to the exhaust. I guess a good chassis paint would be good? Will probably use a brush paint (Eastwood or Frost?).

Also wondering if painting it silver would help with the heat (instead of black)...


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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:23 am 
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Spray it with rattle can VHT satin black, Hycote or similar

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2013 A4 177 TDI Quattro Ibis White
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 Post subject: Re: Torque tube rebuild
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:26 pm 
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Finally split all the bearing carriers and cleaned everything.

Got some new delrin bushings and rivets from Augment Automotive and made a start on filing down the rivets to fit in the bearing carriers.

The rubber outers for the bearing carriers are reusable.

I managed to get 4 new SKF 6006 2Z C4 bearings from bolton bearings on ebay for a good price.

As you can see the original bearings out of the torque tube were also C4 made by INA, I've seen reference to C5 bearings on rennlist but not sure where that information perpetuated from as mine are clearly C4.

Also picked up a pilot bearing while I was at it (6202.2RSR from FAG).

Cleaned up the inside of the torque tube with some white spirit on a home made pipe cleaner which consisted of an old broom handle, empty plastic drinks bottle of the appropriate diameter and an old chamois.

Inside of the torque tube is now nice and clean, will be taking it to the powdercoaters shortly for blasting and powdercoating.

Still thinking about getting it painted silver? and wondering if it would help with temperatures due to it being close to the exhaust...

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