Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum :: View topic

Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum https://forums.tipec.net/

Suspension for an S2 https://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=20384	Page 1 of 2

Author:	andyjgal [ Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Suspension for an S2
This is a well repeated topic, but.... I'm looking to upgrade/renew the suspension on my 944 s2. I've looked at various forums and posts regarding Koni etc and can see lots of kits for about £600, but some mention adapting current parts of the original set up. I don't do track, but want better handling and a slightly lower stance. I also have a pull to the left, not the tracking and geometry, that could be to a worn shock. Are upgrades relatively easy for non Porsche garages to fit and what is the best value for money? Is just as good renewing what is already on? Any help greatly appreciated.

Author:	Waylander [ Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
the only options are Koni easier to fit than bilstien £600-700 need CS / HR springs to lower the front reindex the rear Bilstien better than Koni, much harder to fit £500-600 need CS / HR springs to lower the front reindex the rear Spax Mixed reviews 3 diffrent kits £450 - £650 need to reindex the rear Porsche about £1100 and all the parts have been on the shelf for years hope that gives you a quick idea

Author:

Endoman [ Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:36 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Suspension for an S2

Timely post as I'm in the middle of this.
Best value for money imho are the Koni sport kits. Cut up the old front shocks and fit inserts, replace rears with Koni sports. Ran this for 4 yrs.
I got some old shocks off ebay and rebuilt those as per the Paragon Products instructions follow the instructions but beware the cutting lengths (3 different ones posted by Paragon) best to follow the Koni measurements included in the kit. I got mine from Larkspeed still the cheapest I've found.
Spax do a kit but from past experience on other cars I wouldn't touch them.
I would not recommend lowering more than 1" it buggers up the handling. I'm aiming for 20mm as per 968 Sport and CS.
The most recent purchase was the Paragon front height adjustment kit with 200 lb front springs again a bit misleading as the car ended up same ride height.
I'm now cutting the lower collars off the shocks in situ to give a bit more adjustment but it will only give about 10 mm lower not 1" as they claim.
I have no experience of the lowering springs Hypercoil, Welmeister, Eibach etc.
The rear is a real problem to lower, max is supposedly 11/16" with the spring plates assuming they are in mid position. prepare for much cussing and a hernia, loosening those big nuts.
Reindexing even more cussing. I've got a spare beam axle with 968 torsion bars and all new bushes going in, not for the faint hearted
I've fitted the Lindsey M030 arbs with 5 way adjustment on the rear and Racing products monoball top mounts.
At the moment the car sits level, ride is firm but not uncomfortable, corners well and handles beautifully. Not too much roll and a slight tendency to oversteer if pushed hard but I like it like that. Bit of opposite lock and you can drift it on the throttle, ease off and you will spin ( this was on the track before the 200lb front springs). Softening the rear arb will cure that.
All suspension bushes have been replaced with original or uprated rubber not polywhatsit. Front wishbones are Hartech comp spec.
If it's pulling to one side may be one of the wishbone bushes or castor block (use 968 ones).
To sum up:- fit the Konis, check your front wishbones and leave the ride height.
A lot of info especially on American sites but some misleading and some inaccurate. A lot depends how deep your pockets are KWs and Gaz are supposed to be the dog's bollocks but then you are not tracking so the dog is safe.

Attachments:

IMG_0064_result.JPG [ 100.48 KiB | Viewed 9453 times ]

IMG_0063_result.JPG [ 104.94 KiB | Viewed 9453 times ]

IMG_0062_result.JPG [ 59.99 KiB | Viewed 9453 times ]

Author:	Westfield [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
I thought I had seen on here a post of somebody who had cut their front struts and fitted new inserts on a s2? Also from memory he was going to offer the same service to other members ?? Maybe sombody else can help with more detail ( or I have dreamt it ??)

Author:	marks2ply [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
I would like to fit the koni inserts front myself, do I add the koni springs that lower the front slightly? I assume that you need to couple the fronts with the koni 3 position adjustable rears. I would like to keep it all very simple, could I keep the original ride height with original springs from Porsche or could I even use the springs still fitted. In a nut shell I would like a very simple upgrade with konis with similar to original ride heights etc what should I do? Regards Mark

Author:	Endoman [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
DC Performance listed for S2 as: Front Part Number: 8641-1414SPORT Rear Part Number: 8040-1035SPORT £130 each. Instructions:- http://www.paragon-products.com/kb_results.asp?ID=50 The cutting length needs checking with the Koni intructions Very important. Rears are a straight swop, You can use your old springs and ride height stays almost the same. Almost, because these are gas shocks and may raise ride height a very little, more noticeable on the rear but we are only talking mms. I cut the spring platforms off and fitted the Paragon kit for adjustable ride height with stiffer springs, not necessary for normal use. It's a great value for money mod with rebound adjustment but you can only adjust the rears off the car. I run 3/4 stiff at the front and 50% at the rear for the track but on the road full soft feels better at the rear. Best to find some old knackered front shocks and rebuilt those, I got a pair on the bay for £30, prepped them and had them powder coated yellow. You only need a drill ' a hacksaw and a bit of care.

Author:	AlpineTurbo [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
Endoman wrote: . I would not recommend lowering more than 1" it buggers up the handling. I'm aiming for 20mm as per 968 Sport and CS. The most recent purchase was the Paragon front height adjustment kit with 200 lb front springs again a bit misleading as the car ended up same ride height. I'm now cutting the lower collars off the shocks in situ to give a bit more adjustment but it will only give about 10 mm lower not 1" as they claim. I have no experience of the lowering springs Hypercoil, Welmeister, Eibach etc. Depends on your outlook . Have you actually driven a 944 that low to see what it is like? My 951 was very low and done via a known specialist - it was at one point their car. I know that the people who drove it (fellow 944 drivers) did not find it dangerous or the handling ruined. I also know that I managed to scare a few stock owners which the sheer grip levels - it blew my S2 into the weeds on the handling front and it was a much nicer car to drive too, and a local owner's 22k Cabrio (OK, his was a cabrio mind you. It showed me that bar watching a few sleeping policemen and some very cambered roads where the exhaust would touch (I am talking a few here) that you could have your cake and eat it, albeit at a price. If I had kept it I'd have raised it another 10mm, but that was still have more than 1" of lowering. That was running KWv3s all round, Mille Miglia Cup 1s on Michelin Pilot Sport tyres all round, 968 castor mounts and MO30 ARBs. If I still owned it I would have said that you could drive it; it honestly did not feel ruinous as you described. There have not been many other cars I have been in that offer the relative comfort levels, and sheer grip of that car (an Audi RS4 B7 did but that was a little more crashy). A poor shot of a stock S2 vs. mine: Back on topic I would agree that Konis are OK. On an E36 I did not find them fantastic however despite having the car setup and playing around with different things and the car being rebushed in areas. Maybe they wanted a little more. Spax I have found to be variable. I'd have loved to have said go genuine but there is an issue with parts being old. Bilsteins are one choice but the front struts do require modifying quite a bit to make them find as RS2000CUSTOM has shown on here. Even if they do cost a packet I'd go with KWs if I had a 944 again, albeit gritting my teeth alot. I have tried a number of setups on cars over the years and 'OE' stuff from a German Swedish and French outlet have left me dissapointed upon going genuine in that application on the same model of car (I was once doing around 80k a year in a car for many years (and stuck with Mk3 Mondeos) and towards refused to put my cash towards things that had dissapointed me previously (be it performance or part life. What did Einstein say about the definition of insanity again?

Author:	Endoman [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
Have a look at this excellent article on the effects of suspension lowering:- https://balancemotorsport.co.uk/suspension-geometry. There are other factors involved; unless the front ball joints are changed to a competition variety they run out of travel, stress and fracture. Going low means going stiffer otherwise you'll have frequent bump stop contact, in a corner the o/s front tyre becomes overloaded, looses grip and your in the hedge, front first, if I happens at the back, rear first. Suspension travel is reduced, ability to absorb potholes and speed bumps reduced, passenger comfort reduced. Then bump steer effects come in as the track rods are no longer parallel with the ground (can be engineered out). Camber changes so you have to run more front negative, you need adjustable top mounts as the strut alterations are limited. Yes a lowered car can and will out corner a standard car if done properly but at the cost of comfort and predictability (handling). My 993 runs at RS ride height, but it cost a fortune with full RS components and professional set up (CoG and Ninemeister) Track 944s run low and very stiff with components and tyres to suit. My old MGA was as low and stiff as it could but it was a full spec race car, hopeless on the road. We did a rally in that car but raised it, softened it and got a class win. My mate in his similar car did not soften or raise the suspension and comprehensively stuffed it. Just really to say if you lower it and do nothing else it will handle like a bowl of snot.

Author:	bertroex [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
Going through my stocks, I have a full set of suspension legs off a 944S2 you'd could have for peanuts. Alternatively, I have also a full m030 968 Clubsport set up (all four corners) with 68000 miles on them. The parts are located in Yorkshire, near ferrybridge services. Cheers Bert

Author:	Waylander [ Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
If that CS suspension includes the knuckles and hubs and brakes it's worth a small fortune possibly as much as 2K

Author:	action84 [ Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
Waylander wrote: If that CS suspension includes the knuckles and hubs and brakes it's worth a small fortune possibly as much as 2K Quiet you..... If the man wants to seel it for a low price then let him . I can buy it

Author:	flt505 [ Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
Hi Folks - I have posted the upgrade of my S2 here previously but to reprise what I did to mine: 1. Fitted Koni Sports front and rear 2. Fitted H&R lower springs 3. Renewed RB bushes (rubber - not poly) 4. Checked all associated bushes for wear etc. The front bump stops and weather gasket socks were also replaced. I replaced the front springs, as they work in tandem with the shocks, and were as worn out, probably, as the original shocks were. You can renew with originals, but the H&R compliment the upgrade. Replacing the rear shocks, strangely enough, raised the rear suspension a few mm (this I guess as the old ones were worn). This, coupled with the 25mm (1xinch) lower at the front, makes the car look a lot more balanced (the S2 always looked a bit 'high' at the front to me...). I had the car four-corner balanced and I haven't fiddled around putting top mount adjusters in etc. The shocks are set at the 'middle' setting, for road use. Geo settings as standard. 'A huge considerable difference - you wont know your old car! - my tech mek who did the job said to me after his road test (he has been servicing the car, even for the previous owner...). And he was right... Dave

Author:	Endoman [ Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
Getting there. Front is now at 968 CS ride height (within tolerances) but rear is ok one side and 10mm out on other should be able to get that with the spring arm adjustment and will probably have to tweak the front again to get it even. I agree the S2 does look high at the front, looks much better now and wishbones are still parallel. It's been a right fiddle as the spring collars are fully down now and the calculations per book less than straightforward. Interestingly the static radius of the 16" wheels and tyres is 295mm front and 305 rear but on 17" it's 300 mm all round. So front ride height is 148 mm (head of castor block bolt) and rear 262 mm (center of torsion bar) with 16" wheels using 968 CS figures and 5mm more at front and 5mm less at rear with 17" wheels. I'll set it up for 17" as that is what I use on the track, doubt I'll notice much difference on the road with the 16". Front feels well planted with little disturbance from bumps but rear still hops around even with a full tank of fuel, trolly jack and old front discs in boot. I suspect the spring arm bushes are fubar so with the new refurbished 968 rear end things will improve once I get the courage to fit it. Has to be done so I can sort out the rear brake and fuel lines. Then it will be off to CoG for full geo, at least everything will be clean and freed off

Author:	flt505 [ Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
flt505 wrote: Hi Folks - I have posted the upgrade of my S2 here previously but to reprise what I did to mine: 1. Fitted Koni Sports front and rear 2. Fitted H&R lower springs 3. Renewed RB bushes (rubber - not poly) 4. Checked all associated bushes for wear etc. The front bump stops and weather gasket socks were also replaced. I replaced the front springs, as they work in tandem with the shocks, and were as worn out, probably, as the original shocks were. You can renew with originals, but the H&R compliment the upgrade. Replacing the rear shocks, strangely enough, raised the rear suspension a few mm (this I guess as the old ones were worn). This, coupled with the 25mm (1xinch) lower at the front, makes the car look a lot more balanced (the S2 always looked a bit 'high' at the front to me...). I had the car four-corner balanced and I haven't fiddled around putting top mount adjusters in etc. The shocks are set at the 'middle' setting, for road use. Geo settings as standard. 'A huge considerable difference - you wont know your old car! - my tech mek who did the job said to me after his road test (he has been servicing the car, even for the previous owner...). And he was right... Dave I also fitted a front splitter/spoiler from pro-9 which makes the Koni upgrade even more effective:

Author:	Endoman [ Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Suspension for an S2
That front splitter looks fantastic.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/