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Head gasket time 944S 16v https://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=20375	Page 1 of 2

Author:

MrCalabro [ Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:21 pm ]

Post subject:

Head gasket time 944S 16v

Good afternoon Lads,

It's time, turns out almost all of my quarms were down to a knackered HG,
Diagnosed halfway up a very large hill in wales, the cogs all slipped into place,

Symptoms:

-white smoke on startup
-poor compression/misfire for a few minutes coupled with the smoke if left to sit for more than an hour
-poor running
-running hot
-coolant loss
-Exhaust in my coolant
- lower oil pressure

The final symptom which totally convinced me was seeing what looked like yellowish mayonaise smeared around in my oil filler.

luckily there was no mayo in the sump (i checked!)

I popped some K seal in it and it's holding well (props to that product, also fixed all my coolant leaks!)

Of course being a car guy, i'm not going to allow my baby to suffer with that pretend head gasket in there, it's just one week now till i start to take it apart.

I aim to complete the job in 2 weeks of evenings and weekend tinkering and i have hired myself some mechanical supervision.

My main question would be, while you are in there jobs. i know there are a thousand so i am already doing:

Skim
New tappets
Valve seals
potentially valve springs if they are looking worse for wear/broken
intake vacuum replacements
throttle body reseal
AFM check and clean
new tensioner & chain
oil cooler seals
Power chip (and dyno time booked in for three weeks from now as a goal/reward)

Note that my belts, clutch and waterpump are just 1k, 1k and 5k old respectively so i'll use this as my opportunity to retension my belts.

What else should i do?

And here is a picture from about 20 minutes before i found the sauce surprise in the cap..

Attachments:

11884020_10153550313667052_335850126606003423_o.jpg [ 139.14 KiB | Viewed 10461 times ]

Author:	Rhett [ Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Hi...good luck with the HG replacement, etc. You shouldn't have to replace the cam chain tensioner (very expensive), just the upper and lower pads. Make sure you get a good HG set that includes the intake manifold gasket, all the cam cover seals and the valve stem seals - such as Victor Reinz. Tappets can be quite expensive if you go down the Porsche route, but there are many OEM manufacturers around. There are a couple of recent threads that cover the 16V tappets (VW alternatives), so lots of info there - if you do a search. http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=16453 http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=20209 As you are going to be disturbing the fuel rail, I would take a long hard look at both the rubber fuel pipes that go from the bulkhead to the rail and replace them if they are hard and showing any cracking due to age...you don't really want an under bonnet fire! These should still be available from OPC. Also, perhaps an injector clean and service with new filters, pintle caps and O rings? Clean and check the operation of the Idle Control Valve as you will be able to get to it easily when you remove the intake manifold. Also, check all the rubber hoses very carefully for leaks and replace any that look past it/cracking, etc. Include the various air intake rubber tubes as they too get hard and crack. Another little 'while in there' job would be replace the AOS to block seals as the intake is off. If they leak it can lead to various poor running and idle issues. Also check the O ring on the dipstick. New spark plugs, air filter, check the dist cap and rotor - flush the cooling system really well to get rid of that k seal, and do an engine oil flush before replacing the filter and oil too. Once you get it all back together and running, get an emissions check done and adjust the AFM screw for a good CO2 value. After all that you will be lighter in the wallet, but should have a good running motor that will give years of service and peace of mind .

Author:	MrCalabro [ Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Some great suggestions there, thank you! infact it was you who suggested to me to get the VW equivalents in the first place! i am struggling to find the parts recommended only able to find these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-16-OEM ... 1252638890 or similar aftermarket equivalents. the injectors are indeed being sent off to get cleaned and resealed, i forgot to mention, i will get an AOS kit as they are relatively inexpensive i found somewhere last night that could supply the top and bottom pads for £60~ but cannot remember for the life of me where it was, don't suppose you know of anywhere? I have also got a throttle body reseal kit from Aarnworx, and am looking to just replace all of the vacuum hoses with the venturi delete ones. my gasket kit is OEM victor reinz kit with valve stem seals ect. cap rotor and plugs are all 1k old so no need to refresh, oil and coolant as you suggested are going to be flushed PROPERLY found myself a 4.5m by 3m gazebo to work inside (WITH WALLS!) I guess me and pork chop are going to be spending a lot of alone time out in these cold british evenings so i'm going to invest in a halogen heater and a second floodlight Pretty excited to get going to be honest

Author:	Rhett [ Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Hi, sounds like you are getting good to go! You could try these guys for the tappets: http://www.germanautopartsdirect.co.uk/p597/HYDRAULIC-CAM-FOLLOWER-034109309AD/product_info.html and on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151594422845?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I understand that INA are an OEM for Porsche, so the ones you found should be OK, but I have heard some poor reports from the States regarding quality these days. I was going to buy the Febi/Bilstein ones. £60 for both pads seems good, but I don't know where you would get them at that price. However, these guys do the entire kit for about £79 on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-944-S-S2-928-Wartungssatz-Steuerkette-chain-tensioner-Kettenspanner-/261901466438 Be careful removing the cam cover screws, they can break easily if you apply too much torque. Best bet is a quick tap with a hammer to crack them free first rather than just turning with a long wrench. Always use a good fitting Allen head tool. When you remove the cams, do not mix up the bearing plates, they are individually machined to your engine's head and numbered. Again, use a good quality splined tool for the bolts and replace any that get damaged. The workshop manual will give you plenty of advice for the head work, and all the torque and turning specs for the head bolts. Hope that helps!

Author:	Rhett [ Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Just remembered....on the cam cover there are two plastic plugs. These are sealed with O rings that harden with heat/age - then the plugs leak oil. The O rings are pence from an OPC, so while the cover is off - replace them. The plugs are held in with circlips. Also, use a good RTV hi-temp sealant on all the cam cover gaskets too as there are several places where these can leak with time, so better safe than sorry - especially around the spark plug seals!

Author:	MrCalabro [ Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Luckily I had the cam cover off recently so all the bolts aren't 30 years stuck down! thinking of replacing them anyway as while the cover is off, i'm painting it and a nice shiny looking cam cover with some rusted and grey bolts will look a bit crappy, I also found those for around £6 each from the same site I found those pads for £60! I'll have a look for those parts you suggested, wondering how much more I have to open my wallet for Bilsteins! edit: Found them! http://www.promaxmotorsport.co.uk/categ ... -kits.aspx

Author:	Rhett [ Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Hi, the Bilstein tappets work out about £59 + PP + VAT, so pretty much about the same as the others. They are available in the first link to German Auto Parts Direct. The Pro Max pad kit is the same price as the WPO eBay seller in Germany (third link), but it doesn't include the chain, so the WPO kit appears to be the cheapest. Check the price for the cam cover bolts with your OPC, you might be surprised. Several times I have found them cheaper than other suppliers, especially if they give some discount for forum/club members - or just because the 944 is a classic. Have fun in the tent...!

Author:	Hallsy [ Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Just for info, when I had my S (just over a year ago) I bought my pads from OPC for around £60 inclusive of VAT - ProMax prices are exclusive of VAT. Hope that helps

Author:	Waylander [ Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Lifters http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201290191352? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Author:	MrCalabro [ Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
I tried OPC for the chain and pads, chain is £20, top pad £7 however bottom pad he can't get for me so ill probably go for the one on ebay, i notice that the pad in the photo is brown... the ones from promax are white, it says on the photo that the parts were packed in 2012 would these be okay (even with that discolouring) I'm getting the intake off tonight, along with the fuel rail and possibly the rad.. finally got myself a road bike so i can cycle to work without having to worry about the car for a bit! I have a tonne of write ups printed out, is there a way to preserve the timing of the cams whilst changing the chain? or just be VERY careful? of course i won't start her without ensuring the timing is spot on but that's the only bit i'm a little nervous about..

Author:	wingers [ Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
A new thermostat needs to be fitted as it may be u/s and the cause of gasket failure, if not running hot may damage the thermostat anyway. Reverse flush the rad with a flow check due to a build up of muck. Use distilled water not tap water when topping up.

Author:	Rhett [ Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
MrCalabro wrote: ....is there a way to preserve the timing of the cams whilst changing the chain? or just be VERY careful? Hi, if you have taken the cams out whilst the engine is locked at TDC, then the metal lugs shown in the picture below should be at the top. The picture explains the relationship between the two cams, so just ensure when you replace the chain you maintain it. Some chains do not have the marked links as shown, but counting the links is OK. Attachment: cam timing.jpg [ 137.02 KiB \| Viewed 10217 times ] As I too was a bit apprehensive about the timing, so I marked as much as I could to preserve the timing relationships when reassembling. Use the belt and braces approach and do not remove anything until you have established a good set of marks (or taken good photos) which will allow you to easily put it all back together. For me, that included the cambelt, when I took it off for replacement I had made a number of alignment marks (small dab of paint) to coincide with the various timing marks on the engine. Then, on the new belt I simply remarked that belt in exactly the same way (count the teeth on the belt). It all went back together with no real problems. When removing the cams always slacken the bearing bolts in a sequence to ensure the cams come out as true as possible as the valve spring pressure will lift them up a considerable distance. Be slow and methodical when putting them back in, ensuring the cams are lowering against the springs in a nice uniform manner, if they look uneven, slacken where necessary to true them up again. Do NOT rush this procedure, take your time, go carefully and it should be a satisfying and successful process... The 'discoloration' you noticed on the lower pad in the eBay kit is probably because that pad (from that supplier) is made from a different material as they are no longer available from Porsche, so have been pattern made. Looking forward to you completing this work as I am keen to hear how your replacement tappets worked out!

Author:	Rhett [ Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Almost forgot.....you might already know this from other procedures, but just in case: When you remove the rotor arm, always fix some bolts and washers into the three rotor arm mounting holes. This ensures that the relationship between the backing plate and the cam doesn't change, as otherwise when you take off the cam pulley - you will lose it... When you look at the components you will see what I mean.. Hope that all helps - good luck!

Author:	MrCalabro [ Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Got started last night, 2 hours in and some great progress! Both manifolds are off, belt cover and fuel rail also off, aux belts coming off along with cooling system tonight Sending off the injectors to get cleaned Monday and found a torn vacuum hose that goes to the venturi from the icv, guess that sorts my lumpy idle!

Author:	MrCalabro [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Head gasket time 944S 16v
Update after i got the head off, i had a quick peek in the oil galleries, one of the previous owners clearly had a tensioner pad break on them from the looks of it and that was the cause of my noisy tappets! took some prying, a long pair of tweezers, a hammer and a henry hoover but we finally got it clear, PHEW the head gasket was abolutely TOAST full of holes and definitely leaking HG kit is at home, head is going off tomorrow to be blasted, stripped, cleaned out checked and the valves lapped with new guides if necessary ect does £350 sound right to have the head skimmed and all of the above if all is needed? not sure if i am going to need lifters now that i know the oil gallery was blocked, i suspect that was what was causing the lack of oil to a couple of em and making them clack, either way the shop are going to rebuild them. injectors have been sent off & S2 intake manifold has arrived so i will be fitting that along with a performance chip. Any advice on cleaning the piston faces? they look like **** Can i call my car an S1/2? i'm going to make a 1/2 with an s2 badge i think EXCITINGGG!

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