Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

Hi folks

Just a quick report back on my recent experiments with some Cree LED H4 replacement bulbs.

I've been fed up with the lack of lighting on my 944 for a long time, even my Golf IV has better. I had Osram Nightbreakers, but were still underwhelmed and my next move would have been to fit better wiring and relays. There has been chat recently about HID replacements and I think it was Steve (with the red/white 924T) who said LEDs were the way to go. This got me googling and I found a Rennlist post full of chat from 928 owners about the joys of Cree H4 bulb replacements. There were some stunning 'before and after' pics showing really strong white light and some warnings about cheaper counterfeit bulbs on Ebay without genuine Cree chips.

Chief benefits discussed seemed to be great output, instant on/off and much reduced current draw - which meant I wouldn't need to upgrade my cabling. It all looked like a straight swap ....if they would fit a 944 light pod.

I contacted Steve Woodypeck, who seemed to be UK based and active on RennList and he turns out to be joint RO for TIPEC central region and a sponsor of Rennlist Porsche forum over in the USA. This gave me confidence to avoid the perils of the cheapest Ebay listings with long postal delay from China and buy direct from him - he apparently has sold many upgrades from his business. http://www.woodypeck.com

Cree bulb technology is a constantly developing one and Steve sent me some of the latest black bulbs with integrated circuits. These turned out to be about 10mm to long - being obstructed by the frame bar behind (see pics below). Steve immediately sent me out previous generation silver ones, they are shorter but have the same output and fitted nicely. The return service (he still hasn't received the black units back yet) and fast email responses, proved to me over and over that the small price difference between a gamble on Ebay and choosing to buy from Steve had been a good call. He is a great man to deal with

Fitting was simple enough. I had to snip the rings off the retaining wire spring clips so that they would engage properly - the body of the bulb got in the way otherwise and I have hacked the rubber boot to fit. I'm not sure if its wise to have the boot in place at all as the bulb may get too hot. Apparently the bulb has safety circuitry which will reduce output if it overheats - if that happens then the boots will go. These silver bulbs have a small three pin plug at the end which still just touches the frame bar at the back of the light pod, but I don't think it will be a problem.

I haven't really bothered to count lumens as the Chinese sellers seem to deliberately overstate and confuse but stayed up late last night until it was properly dark for a subjective test. THEY ARE BRILLIANT! Strong white light, fantastic on main beam and I need to adjust upwards the normal headlamp beam as it is a little low. Certainly they did not dazzle the few cars coming in the other direction, which is a good thing, but I would like a little less cut off. I can recommend them without hesitation, as I can Steve as a good source of guaranteed bulbs of the right standard.

Now some self explanatory pics:

Very nice.

Isn't it lovely to have decent lighting. I have hids in mine and there was a lot of talk of how they would blind people, to date I have no issues with other drivers

It is absolutely wonderful to have decent lighting

I don't need to get into a debate about lumens or anything tech, last night the experience spoke for itself. Fast dry roads and for once a main beam that allowed me to see far enough ahead to really push. Totally agree regarding accurate adjustment and consideration for oncoming drivers, but I didn't upset anyone last night on dipped beam and I will get them properly adjusted soon.

Cheers

How much?

Somebody has to say it..... but are they street legal?

LED bulbs I have seen are advertised as 'off road use only', and at a recent presentation Steve Woodypeck would not confirm that they are street legal.

I think it's a grey area - some new cars are fitted with LEDs therefore they must be legal, so I think the query lies with the after-market retro-fit ones that people are fitting.

Personally I would try and find out before splashing out £75 on a light bulb (that's what he said they were).

I agree it probably is a grey area at the moment......there does seem a lack of definitive guidance either way. Does anyone know of any prosecutions, rather than just doubt and confusion?

Steve's price is £75.00 a pair - higher than some, but not all, Ebay traders; but given the quick service and sending out a different model when I needed it, then I don't mind the difference.

A quick trawl of the Internet seems to indicate problems mostly at MOT time rather than on the street. Testers alerted to a bluish tinge to the light which leads them to spot that the bulbs do not have a ECE mark. All this is somewhat dated and mostly refers to sidelights as its only fairly recently that replacement headlamp bulb technology has improved.

The Cree bulbs I have do not have even the faintest hint of a blue tinge - they are pure white. Fingers crossed.....

So much rubbish is talked about this: the issue is that the law hasn't caught up with technology and so only acknowledges the existence of incandescent bulbs.

Vehicles which are built using HID and LED lamps get around this due to their carrying EU-wide homologation and this type approval trumps any restrictions placed by sovereign states law.

Talk of self-levelling and washers is usually prattle and usually refers to a DoT document which by their own opinion, was an unqualified opinion (and incorrect - easily identified as not all approved vehicles have self levelling lamps, or any sort of adjustment at all!).

Rob, are you able to post the overall length in millimetres for the black and the earlier silver parts, please? I realise that its only the distance from the base to the top of the external part which matters, but I think that an overall length in mm will help with the Chinglish communication...

Simon

The MoT situation is as follows.....

There is no ban on aftermarket LED or HiD bulbs.

There is no requirement for headlamps to carry any E marks or any other approval.

There is no requirement for headlamp washers or automatic levelling to be fitted along with HiD or LED lamps, however if fitted they must work.

The only legitimate reasons for rejection on a 944 with aftermarket LED or HiD headlamp bulbs fitted would be incorrect beam pattern, incorrect headlamp aim or if you get a really pedantic tester, headlamp washers not working.

Then you get Construction and Use regulations. A whole different can of worms, not necessarily in line with the MoT test, and so messed up by Euro interference that in a lot of cases unenforceable and best ignored

^^+1 ...

My issues with HID have always come from the bi-xenon H4 kits I've used on the bikes - my old KTM had separate bulbs for dip and main which was a complete disaster as the HID on main took a few seconds to 'warm up' before giving decent light, hence the use of the Bi-xenon which uses a solenoid to physically move the whole bulb capsule such that the plasma discharge orb is in the right place for each beam. Sounds great, but it's not ideal as the beam pattern on either high or low had hot and cold spots...

I'd be very interested to learn more about the beam pattern of these CREEs, and how even the light pool is ...

G

I'd be very interested to see the beam pattern on these also

Thanks for some common sense assessment of current state of legal position - I take heart from what has been said.

I'll have to take out one of the bulbs to measure it Simon - so will do next weekend.

Will also see if I can get a pic at night to show beam pattern for everyone. As I said at the moment the dipped beam needs to be adjusted a bit, not to lower it to stop dazzling oncoming drivers, but actually to raise it a little.

Cheers

Hi Robin & Hi Everyone.

Robin, many thanks for your kind comments and photos. Excellent write up. Very much appreciated.

I would advise for these bulbs that the rubber boot goes around the base of the light stem if you want to use it. Do not cover the heat sink with the rubber boot as it will cause the light bulb to overheat! The Heatsink can be left out in the open to do its job - keep the bulb stem cool!

We have sold quite a few bulb sets to 944 owners so far and besides the length issue with the different designs of bulbs they have all been fitted with great success and happy customers. I will try to answer all your comments & questions below and I hope cover all the points to your satisfaction. If you want any other info on our bulbs I am more than happy to provide what ever information you require or need. You can mail us direct at Woodypeck@outlook.com or visit our online web site shop at Woodypeck.com

So, to answer as many questions as I can - and I apologise in advance if I miss anyone's;

- Can provide some accurate info about the Lumens and what the different stated Lumens means - will add this in a spate post
- Our bulbs are around 3000 Lumens compared to 1250-1400 lumens for a good top quality Halogen [Night Breaker type]. [Note: cheap Halogen bulbs will only give 450 - 950 lumens]
- Any bulb that is sold in Halfords or any shop will be sold as "show bulbs or off-road bulbs" because the only bulbs that are truly legal on UK roads are incandescent bulbs - old style Halogen. Argon filled modern halogens are all illegal! So if you have bought any new Halogen bulb super-bright or Hi-white or Night Breaker etc. etc. these are illegal! According to the Road Traffic act of 1989
- Even new modern street lights LED and Gas discharge type are illegal according to the Road Traffic Act of 1956.
- That is why all sellers have to put this statement on their websites & shops to cover themselves until UK law gets updated.
- New cars get round this by "hiding" under the "Type Approved" rule under EU law so any part on any car is legal because it is "assumed" to be Type Approved by the manufacturer
- The price we charge is Fully "VAT & Duty Paid" into the UK - most others rely you the buyer to pay import Duty & VAT
- Beware of copycat bulbs sold from the Far East - these look the same but are very poor quality, potentially dangerous and have poor light
- Our bulbs or 6000K colour temperature - a Blue white light - golf GTI boy racer style would be 8000K by example - Old Halogen bulbs are 3500-4500K yellow white
- Our bulbs Pass the MOT!
- Our bulbs use your existing Headlamp pattern to direct the light in the correct way - exactly the same as a STD Halogen bulbs does
- Our bulbs have NO Hot Spots or Cold spots!

Sorry for the long list of points & answers & hope I caught everyone's query/question/comment
I will post some photos, & dimensions shortly.

Many Thanks again for all the interest. Feel free to ask any questions

Steve
Bizman928 - MY88 Black 928 S4 - with Full CREE bulb conversion inside & out

- There are no problems with our bulbs in an MOT

Here are some photos & dimensions of the 3 different bulbs we currently sell.

Our New 2015 CREE LED Bulb product is the G5 Model
- 3500 lumen per bulb, 40w per bulb, in both 6000-6500K and 4300K versions
http://woodypeck.com/?product=new-h4-cree-led-40w-headlight-bulbs-80w-bulb-set-4000-lumens-1-pair-of-bulbs

These are the black one in Rob's photos. They have a fan unit and the driver unit is within the body of the bulb at the end - why it is a bit longer.

Our other New 2015 CREE LED bulb product is the G4HL Model also with a fan
- 3200 Lumen per bulb, 35w per bulb, 6500K
http://woodypeck.com/?product=new-h4-cree-led-35w-headlight-bulbs-70w-bulb-set-6500k-1-pair-of-bulbs

These are different design, they are shorter in length and have a separate driver which is in the power lead - just like our 2014 model previously. They have an "Eyeball" of Gel on the CREE CHIP which throws more light around the headlight reflector so they seem more bright but still pass the MOT no problem. The cut-off is less "Crips" in my view but I have these on my 928 S4 and they have just passed my MOT - even when I asked the MOT station to try to fail them!
These are very popular with the 4x4 guys as they give excellent long distance "Throw" on Main Beam.

Our Latest New May 2015 CREE LED bulbs is the "2S" model - This is what is Rob has fitted into his 944 and the silver one in the photos.
These are the latest design and are different in 3 ways:-
- The chip is a new filament type rather than a COB pate.
- There is a glass shroud around the CREE filament chip to give a 360° light pattern
- There is NO fan - just a Heat sink instead