Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum
https://forums.tipec.net/

MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
https://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=16848		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Zeebad [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Guys, just would like your advice on this quagmire I've gotten myself in to!

I had my 944 in for an MOT and it has failed due to rotten sills basically. I just had a new steering rack and new rear brake discs/pads put in. The car has improved massively in everything...all the little niggles seems to have gone and it feels 'tight'. Now, I was planning to have the sills done at some point later in the year but this has come as a bit of a slap in the face as I have pretty much borked my repair budget for now doing the steering rack/brake discs/fluid changes. It seems to me both the inner/outer sills on one side are badly rusted and the corrosion is starting at the front wing area too but the other side, only the front side of the sill are corroded.

I'm considering my options, and I got a quote for doing the sills on one side where it has badly rusted. It sounds reasonable from what I've seen, but my worry is that if I give the go ahead for sill repair on both the sides and after getting rid of the underseal if they find the rust is much worse than originally anticipated then I imagine the bills could get pretty big and at that point its not worth the bother (I'm thinking I won't bother if its so bad that anything less than a full body resto would not fix it). I just wondered if I can determine if its worth the sill replacement job before jumping in to it! I really love this car and I want to save it somehow...(read: I've spent loads on sorting out the mechanical issues and now don't want to lose everything!)...wondering if there's anybody in the forum that can help me with this. I'm in South London now.

The real sad thing is, as I drove back from the garage, the car felt fantastic for the first time since owning it and I just felt really terrible that this could be my last drive in it. :cry:
Author:  EDDIE [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
The big killer on these cars seems to be the sills and also the area around the rear suspension arm mounts.I would get a full assessment done which will involve removing undersea paint etc and see what is there, may cost a bit but could save you spending alot if you don't want to keep the car. A proper sill job and rear suspension mount area repair will be a lot £3k ish

Nick .
Author:  AndyG [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
I may get shot down in flames here but could I tentatively suggest that there's a big difference (in price) between getting the job done properly and getting it good enough to pass the mot. It doesn't need look factory perfect, just solid in the right areas.
Author:  Althejazzman [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Zeebad wrote:
The real sad thing is, as I drove back from the garage, the car felt fantastic for the first time since owning it and I just felt really terrible that this could be my last drive in it. :cry:


If you're a committed and slightly mad Porsche owner like the rest of us, rusty sills shouldn't be a reason for never driving it again! I had to have the passenger side sill done last year. It cost about £900, and was done properly: no filler. Taken back to bare metal, new metal welded in place, painted over entire quarter panel in order to match.
Author:  Rhett [ Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Althejazzman wrote:
If you're a committed and slightly mad Porsche owner like the rest of us, rusty sills shouldn't be a reason for never driving it again!


That is so true. Unfortunately sill rot is sending a lot of these cars to the breakers, and that is a shame. I admit that some are just too far gone, but until you assess the extent of the corrosion it will be difficult to decide what to do. If the rust has not affected the suspension mountings, then the car can be saved by the replacement of the outer (and if necessary) the inner sills. If the suspension mounts have succumbed, then the work gets a bit more involved and more expensive, but it doesn't have to mean the end of the car but you might need deeper pockets!

Do you have any metalwork / bodywork experience? If so, you can help bring the price down by doing some prep and finishing work yourself.

You will at first have to open up the sill and have a good look, so break out the grinder:
Attachment:
sill rust 1 2.jpg

Attachment:
sill rust 5 2.jpg

I was fortunate enough to be able to get mine done relatively inexpensively by doing the prep myself and just getting in a good mobile welder to help with the fitting, etc.
Attachment:
sill repair 1 2.jpg

Attachment:
sill repair 4 2.jpg

But the result was quite acceptable (well I think so!):
Attachment:
completed sill 3 2.jpg

You don't have to go down the route of OEM sills from the OPC as there are many third-party manufacturers of replacement panels. They may not be exactly the same as the originals but they can be fitted and when finished they look fine, as I am sure many forum members will agree.

If you have any pics - please post them up for us to see and advise. :D
Author:  jackjosh [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Where are You!
Author:  broady_6 [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
I would suggest finding a mate with a welder and learning to weld. Its really very easy. I have so far yet to be able to understand why people kill these cars because"oh the sills have gone". So what, you could buy the panels, paint and a welder for less than 1k and do the job.

I say find a mate with a welder and ask if you can have a play on some scrap and get a feel for it. See if you feel confident first. But it really isnt the mammoth task people make it out to be and its certainly no reason to get rid of a car.

Where are you? you can pop in and try some welding if you want
Author:  jonjeffryes [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
broady_6 wrote:
I would suggest finding a mate with a welder and learning to weld. Its really very easy. I have so far yet to be able to understand why people kill these cars because"oh the sills have gone". So what, you could buy the panels, paint and a welder for less than 1k and do the job.

I say find a mate with a welder and ask if you can have a play on some scrap and get a feel for it. See if you feel confident first. But it really isnt the mammoth task people make it out to be and its certainly no reason to get rid of a car.

Where are you? you can pop in and try some welding if you want


Spot on here Broady 6.....a number of us on the forum - remember I'm not the only old git, I've seen the age of some of you behind the posts now ;-) - have been brought up on sixties and seventies metal where welding was a regular past time and expectation just to keep relatively young cars on the road.

My last 911 at 20 years old had rust in the sills, a posts, b posts, front wheel well, both front wings, and rear wings under the window that you could see. Two days of welding in new metal and a respray and the car was better than new.

If it's an older car, you can generally expect that the car will have rust. Unfortunately It will need to be maintained just like the mechanics.

After years of playing with Fords, Fiats, Alfas, Lancias and VW's ....I really respect how solid the 944 is...despite the current rash of age related sill issues.

Jon
Author:  Zeebad [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Thanks for the advice, guys!

I'm based in the Croydon area for now and I have a mechanic mate here who can do the welding for beer money, so to speak. So you guys think it can be done without spending loads more? The thing is, this is my only car and I need it to be on the road for all this work to be viable, hence the frustration.

Rhett wrote:
Do you have any metalwork / bodywork experience? If so, you can help bring the price down by doing some prep and finishing work yourself.

You will at first have to open up the sill and have a good look, so break out the grinder:
Attachment:
sill rust 1 2.jpg

Attachment:
sill rust 5 2.jpg

I was fortunate enough to be able to get mine done relatively inexpensively by doing the prep myself and just getting in a good mobile welder to help with the fitting, etc.
Attachment:
sill repair 1 2.jpg

Attachment:
sill repair 4 2.jpg

But the result was quite acceptable (well I think so!):
Attachment:
completed sill 3 2.jpg

You don't have to go down the route of OEM sills from the OPC as there are many third-party manufacturers of replacement panels. They may not be exactly the same as the originals but they can be fitted and when finished they look fine, as I am sure many forum members will agree.

If you have any pics - please post them up for us to see and advise. :D


Thanks for this post, the rust looks similar to mine and I will post some pics tomorrow! I don't mind getting the parts, do you have any links to where I can get the non-OEM sills/wing? From the MOT report, I think it will need offside inner and outer sills and front wing and I think the nearside outer sill. I don't know if the rust has spread to the rear suspension mounts although according to the MOT report the rear nearside sill is fine.

Complete noob question, does this link include the full outer and inner sill?

http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod5191/ ... 4-1982-91/
Author:  Rhett [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Hi, the link you posted refers to only the complete outer sill, the inner sill panel (OEM) is a separate part. However, as it is not seen once the repair is done, a competent welder should be able to fabricate a suitable part from galvanised sheet metal (1 to 1.2mm).

You can get what seems to be a good quality outer sill (non-OEM) from Porkaparts. They have an eBay listing at the moment for these: 231136496672

They also do the rear quarter panel replacements too. Please note that the profiles of these parts are not exactly the same as the original, they are flatter rather than the slightly curved original and the lower lip is much simpler. However, they are strong and again a competent welder should be able to fit them well.

The route I took was a bit involved as I managed to get hold of a set of second hand sills (complete) cut directly off a car that had been rust-proofed from new. So, apart from a little surface rust they were fine. A lot of work was required to trim and cut them to fir, but I did that myself, so the welding costs were minimal.

Best of luck!
Author:  Zeebad [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Hmm, Porkaparts didn't know about them, thanks. They have a Post -85 front wing too. Will have a chat with my mate about the outer sill and need to find a source for the inner sills too.
Author:  andyjgal [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
I had a similar issue in May. Could have got welded cheaply, but got replacement outer sills and rear quarter panels, had them welded, painted and fixed other bits and pieces for a fair price. Car looks great, with the only issue being that the platic trim under the sills is not on, but I'm not too bothered .
Look for a recommended indie repair shop.
Author:  broady_6 [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Elliot and Porkaparts presses the panels in the correct gauge metal too making them more durable, worth giving the chap a call very knowledgeable
Author:  Pink piggy [ Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
Hi
I agree that people fuss about welding but with a keen eye and a steady hand its quite easy with a cheap MIG kit from say Machine Mart. (which is what I have)
You will find the bottled gas is hideously expensive when compared with a big cylinder available from in my case Adams Gas.

There is one thing that is very important though. If you have your car jacked up and you cut too much metal away it will sag and then you weld bits in, the doors etc wont fit :(
So its also best to do one side at a time.
Author:  broady_6 [ Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MOT Fail due to rust...need some advice
As said above^^

The "sagging" is no different to any car. The beetle is the classic for heater channels going as it had hot damp air pumped down it. As a rule get some scaffold tube or similar. Remove your door and the catch striker plate and make a triangular brace. Top hinge to the striker plate and then to the bottom hinge. Bolt it all in and it should give you a fighting chance of having the right shape.

This sort of idea Image
Page 1 of 4 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/