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16V hydraulic tappet replacment
https://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=16453		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rhett [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Hi there, I have an enquiry regarding the 16V hydraulic tappets. Having spent some time on the Pelican Parts forum I had come across various members who had used an alternative to the OEM part (very expensive). Mostly the part number they used appears to be this one: 034109309AD. Now, this seems to be a pretty generic VW (and lots of others) part with the same dimensions but just a slightly different profile to the oil groove.

Now, as I saw another forum member post this comment recently -'hopefully a new set of hydraulic tappets (from early Golf GTI)' I thought I would ask if any of you guys have tried alternative parts and what the outcome seemed to be.

I want to do a full replacement as I feel the clatter from the head is kinda letting the car down a bit. I have tried various oils and that does change it slightly, but I think several tappets have just gone 'soft'. I did do a full oil flush out after the rebuild too, but perhaps some 'Seafoam' or similar product might help to quiet them? In the States people have suggested all sorts of remedies such as adding a quantity of ATF to the oil, etc. etc...However, I am not too sure I want to go down that route unless someone can advise?

What's the general feeling? Thanks! :D
Author:  David924S [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
I bought a set of VW Golf GTI hydraulic tappets new from VW 16 for £73 and measuring them compared to the originals it seems the only difference is the oil hole location, I am having them fitted this week and next and have asked the mechanic to fit one tappet into the head with the cam installed and pressurize the tappet to ensure it fits against the valve head and cam profile i.e. that the valve closes, if it turns out the internal pistons are making the tappets too long when pressurized I will have the tappets machined down to fit but all the measurements taken so far seem positive and they are a nice tight fit into the head.

I have tried secondhand Porsche units only to have them fail quickly and the cost of INA Porsche replacements is very high. The VW units I bought are made by INA same as the replacement Porsche ones.

The Porsche unit for the S2 is 928.105.312.02 the VW part number was 050.109.309.J which from memory has been superseded by (H)

Part of my engine noise issue is the bucket in the head the tappet fits into has oversized with wear so the tappets are loose in the head I think this is causing oil to leak out rather than pressure up the tappet.
Author:  Rhett [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Thanks for that info David, I hope it all works out OK...However, if you could report back after the work has been done that would be great! :D
Author:  pauly [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
I was talking to someone that has built a lot of Cosworth engines and has recently recently done a S2 turbo, he reckons the hydraulic lifters are the same in both engines.
Author:  edh [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Keep us posted on this David - my S2 won't be recovering from its latest problems unless I find some very cheap tappets - no way I'm paying Porsche prices for a set!
Author:  edh [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
sounds promising

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/6713817-post41.html
Author:  Rhett [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Hmm..done a bit more digging and it seems the PN: 050109309J is what several suppliers are calling 'the lightweight lifter' and it is favoured over the more usual 034109309AD which I have come across. I guess this one is manufactured out of a different material, or machined differently to reduce weight...

However, so far they all seem to have the same dimensions, etc. :D
Author:  Hallsy [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
I had read about the VW equivalent tappets before, so general internet consensus it that they are a direct replacement, but you are saying that need machining to fit properly David?

£73 for a set sounds very good. What does a set from Porsche cost?
Author:  David924S [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Hallsy wrote:
I had read about the VW equivalent tappets before, so general internet consensus it that they are a direct replacement, but you are saying that need machining to fit properly David?

£73 for a set sounds very good. What does a set from Porsche cost?


Not sure about the machining, my mechanic has recently built up a 968 racing engine and two of the tappets he got (as he put it) did not look like the others and when he tested the car it was down on compression on the cylinder with the odd tappets, they were keeping the valves open. I do not think they were the VW ones I have bought but have asked him to check valve closure prior to building up to save having to strip the engine. I read the Rennlist items and that was where I got the idea for the VW tappets from, I bought mine from a garage on eBay who had 16 for £76 (inc P&P) and they are brand new in the original VW packaging so let's hope they work, details of the eBay item "Genuine OEM VW Golf MK2 Golf Hydraulic Tappets Lifter 05... (161006799624)"

Certainly the dimensions appear so similar as to not make any difference, I will no doubt find out in the next few days, I would suspect if they are keeping the valves open due to length then this could easily be machined off the skirt in a lathe.
Author:  Hallsy [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Sorry Dave, I missed the 'if' it turns out the pistons are too long!!

I have certainly read on Rennlist that the VW ones are OK, so will be good to hear that you can confirm that!

What is considered the minimum for a head rebuild on these engines, without anything broken, just a 'while you're there' approach, such as replacing the HG?

Headgasket, lifters, valve springs, lapping the valves - anything else?
Author:  David924S [ Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Not sure if this is minimum but I tried to keep the costs down and so far they are as below:
Replacement 2nd hand decent head (no cams or tensioner) £250
One set replacement springs (one valve set had broken) £21/valve set(OPC)
Head crack tested, replacement exhaust guides (Std size not 1st oversize hard to find eventually got from Germany took ages), light skim, exhaust valve seats re-cut, new valve stem oil seals £370
Victor Reinz top end gasket set (Frazerpart Porsche) £153
VW Tappets £76
Oil and Filter £50
Mechanic to remove old head and fit new would have been around £450 but I asked him to check the tappets to ensure valves close, check and torque crank pulley bolt, check and clean check valve in head, fit new cam and balance shaft belts (only one year old but while your there) and also check the bores for wear, £550
While it is being done I am having the cam chain and top tensioner pad replaced £30

I would say minimum would be light skim on head if necessary, exhaust valve guides replaced and seats cut, valve stem oil seals replaced, cam chain and tensioner pad (hopefully only top one as bottom expensive), hydraulic tappets replace where worn, cam, balance shaft belts and any rollers plus water pump if not done in last two belt services, plus oil/filter/coolant and plugs plus obviously top end gasket set.

I decided to buy a replacement head so as not to have to wait to have the machining done and be without a car, I will sell on my original head once I know what condition it is in.

Not a cheap job even when done using alternative parts but it could have been a lot worse. I am lucky that the car has only done about 500 miles since it's last service when the water pump and all the belts, tensioners and rollers were done.
Author:  MrCalabro [ Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Sorry to revive this OLD thread,

Did you get longevity from those vw tappets? i'm looking at doing the same now.

Thanks :?:
Author:  Rhett [ Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 16V hydraulic tappet replacment
Hi, as the original poster for this old thread I have some further information. I think that the user (David924S) you have directed the longevity question to has since sold the car and may not be a regular here anymore (cant really answer for him, but that seems to be the case), therefore, you probably wont get an answer. However, I have not heard any adverse comments about using VW tappets (lifters) apart from the usual ones of supplier quality. There are several different makes out there and some are good and some not so...(as with all pattern parts, and even OEM parts). Febi, INA and so on make these items and people have had varying degrees of success. I think your question should actually be - who makes the best quality tappets, and what is your experience?

I am thinking of buying a set of Febi/Bilsteins in preparation of a complete swap out, unless someone advises against with a good case history. :wink:

Some of the makes advertised on eBay are a bit suspect (cheap imitations), so always best to google the make and see what others have experienced - before buying.
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