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1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
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Author:  Hallsy [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
I'd like to tighten up the handling a little on my 88 944 S.

I don't know for sure without looking, but I'm pretty sure it is on original suspension (the yellow paint marks are still presetn/lined up on top of turrets) - and even though it rides and turns in well enough, I'm sure it could be better.

It feels a little soft, as though it leans a bit more than I'd expect.

What are my options being an '88 S? I'm guessing if I bought new I would have to buy inserts (unless buying new struts from Porsche), and if that's the case Koni's would be best? Are there any other options that come with a specific fitting kit to convert a sealed strut? Would it be an upgrade to fit S2 or Turbo struts/springs? I'm not adverse to second hand parts if in good condition. Maybe a second hand M030 setup.

As well as firming the damping up a bit, I'd also like to lower the car by 30mm or so - any suggestions for springs? The front end does look quite high (17" wheels with 205/50 R17 tyres) - higher than a Lux even. I know the RR is a little larger than standard setup, but it looks higher than that what that would push it up by. It's arguably a touch lower than it should be at the rear though, so maybe if I correct that, the front will come down a touch anyway.

I've been told 968 caster blocks are a good upgrade, especially with the 17" wheels. How about rebushing the front wishbones? Can you buy OE rubber bushes separately?

At low speeds I also have a slight knock from the steering, seems to be in a couple of places when turning through straight ahead, and only really hear/feel it at low speeds. Any suggestions for this? Steering u/j?

Any suggestions appreciated :)
Author:  tr7v8 [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Did this to my AROs late 2.7 a few years ago. Just used standard replacement bits, then did our own group afterwards. As much negative camber as we could get on the front, with zero toe set withheld trakrite. It now drives hands off at all speeds and corners well. Running bigger dia. Wheels 968 castor blocks will make an improvement, I have a brand new set her, make me an offer.
Author:  lindsayhbrown [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
As Jim says above, knocking could well be steering u/j, maybe a set of 968 CS anti roll bars at both ends would lessen the body roll. Front suspension needs shorter springs to lower, rears need either the splines re-indexing or the spring plates undoing and adjusting
Author:  AlpineTurbo [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Andy's car has spoiled you IMHO ;). A lovely 944S that has to be said.

Call me cynical, but many M030 setups for sale now are quite tired if they are original, and those which are not so bad (refurbs) command strong money secondhand from what I have seen (although competitive to the options listed below). I would say to drive 944s on different/fresh setups to get an idea of where you want to be (and to get an idea of whether you believe it is worth the outlay), but this is not always easy.

I believe you can still get the stock front dampers with cases at around £230 each, plus the rears at a shade over £60 a corner. If you do not mind cutting the front struts up I would be tempted with the Bilstein B6 dampers (I have yet to be disappointed with these on a car) at a cost of £122 a leg up front, along with £133 for each rear damper from Design 911. The Spax kit looks great value as you have seen, although the results seem to be varied from the reports people have mentioned.

If you decide to lower, it may be worth considering a coilover set with the Spax items being the cheapest as said (although with variable results) along with the Gaz Gold kit (but this has gone up in price recently to over a shade above £800!). Springs seem to be around £150 for a pair.

968 Castor mounts IMO are worth the outlay, giving slightly sharper steering along with keeping the front wheels in check in the case of the larger 17" wheels (there is a Porsche Technical service bulletin outlining this). TR7V8's offer is one I would consider. If the very front wishbone bushes are fine I would be tempted to leave them (they seem to last in almost geologicial time it seems (when I changed my arms on the old S2 for new items, the bushes were fine much to my surprise, a bit a of a testament if you ask me!).

Steering UJ sounds like a candidate (was this down as an advisory at all for the last MOT?) and it is easy to check. Another area I would look at is your ARB mounts (these can snap, and the bushes can expand with oil or simply wear out over time; the drop link bushes at the wishbone can fall victim to wear as well). Some may disagree here, but whilst the Porsche items are of a good quality from the dealer (and cheap) I would go Poly for the ARB bushes, especially with how fun oil changes can become in addition to Poly bushes seeming to be resistant to oil (Superflex and Powerflex seem to be good bushes for here).

One more thing (forgive me for sounding like an old record), I would be tempted to shell out for a full geometry setup, to really get the best. I appeciate I am on some pricey suspension, but the difference between this car and my old S2 is a night and day difference (no iffy rear end, and if I am honest, my S2 seemed was relatively firm with a little more wallow than this one (well, it is near non existant in the Turbo!). At the time my S2 seemed to handle significantly better the other tired 944s I saw for sale. I really was pleasantly surprised with this car, and could finally appreciate the suspension work (although it would have cost a small fortune on my old S2 I reckon).

Oh, and sorry for this marathon of a post :).
Author:  Hallsy [ Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
AlpineTurbo wrote:
Andy's car has spoiled you IMHO ;). A lovely 944S that has to be said. :).


Maybe, or possibly my old mk1 eunos - but that was far from standard in the suspension/bracing area. Andy's car did feel very good from a passenger perspective.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've been in contact with Jim about the castor blocks.

Geo is also on the cards once I have decided what I'll be replacing and finished with anything that might adjust it further. I need to get the S2000 checked as well. Any recommendations of where to go in the south east?

I'd forgotten about the B6 option - I've also used Bilstein dampers in the past with good results.

I'm going to get underneath the car tomorrow to have a good look at exactly what is fitted on the car at the more, and also condition of bushes, etc. I'm sure the old girl can be brought to life without resorting to KW's!! My wallet can't stretch that far at the more anyway!!
Author:  jmgarage [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
I would recommend some...
Standard Koni Sport inserts up front and some replacement damper units at the rear
968 M030 anti roll bars front and rear
968 Caster blocks
New steering UJ
And if your on a mission for a good feel, some replacement track rod ends and tie rods (even if MOT passable, its amazing how much this tightens up a car and increases communication with the road through the steering!)
Lastly maybe some lowering springs for the front, no more than an inch.

Do this lot and I am pretty sure you would end up with a car which talks to you through the steering and the seat, will probably even out handle an 944 Turbo with tip top M030 due to the 968 anti roll bars.

But then again, probably just standard dampers and replacing some steering bits will transform her from what you have now... Dampers make such an improvement, even standard ones... New ones start to go off at 20k miles (just the beginning) and by the time they get to 50k to 100k miles they are shot even though they will pass an MOT
Author:  Hallsy [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Thanks for the suggestions Jon - hope you're feeling a bit better.

I had a look under the car today whilst doing the oil change, I couldn't id the springs so will have to remove the wheels and clean them up (I wanted to double check they were correct as the front end does look a bit higher than normal, but this could be an optical illusion - I'm still yet to find some level ground, lol!), the struts are almost certainly originals, the front roll bar is 25.5mm (is this an upgrade? It certainly looks cleaner than the other suspension components) and 18mm rear roll bar.

The ARB bushes look quite swollen so I will be replacing these and probably go for some the support brackets as well. Is it worth going poly on the ARB bushes?

I'll price up some OE replacement dampers and compare the price to Koni/Bilstein, if there's not much in it I'll upgrade, but as Jon suggests, I guess even fresh OE shocks will be an improvement. Will probably have to be next month now, this month has been hectic already!!
Author:  pad944968 [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Hi Hallsy

I will be selling my Leda suspension soon. This is front and rear fully height and rebound adjustable.

The rears are coilovers.

Used but in good condition £300 if you're interested.
Author:  Hallsy [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Could well be interested in those mate, are they rebuildable and different rate springs freely available?

I'll drop you a PM :)
Author:  pad944968 [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Hi

I believe they are and Leda will refurbish them too.

http://www.leda.com/our-services
Author:  AlpineTurbo [ Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
The ARB is probably clean due to it getting wet in oil (either a previous PAS leak or from oil changes (you will come to learn of how fun the filter change can be ;)). For this very reason I would go for good Poly bushes here (Powerflex or Superflex should do the trick).
Author:  Hallsy [ Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Did an oil & filter change yesterday Chas, only spilt a little oil in the engine bay, but yes, it's quite a messy design/position!!

What were Porsche thinking!?
Author:  Hallsy [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
First step today, fitted some 968 caster blocks (thanks Jim!) and set the caster fully positive I.e. tabs out. Need to get a full alignment done I know (does caster change effect toe?) but will wait until I have replaced a few other bits. Had a quick drive, could be placebo or the fact that I had just been driving a ford ranger - but first impressions are that the front end feels a bit tighter with nicer turn in. The wheels want to keep turning in towards full lock at slow speeds, but I gather this is what happens with positive caster?

I have some play in both front struts, but seems to be from the top mounts, but suspect it is taken up once weight is on the car.

Next up will be shocks (still undecided on exact setup), jmg steering shaft, arb poly bushes and stiffening brackets (I might even just make these if I have any suitable material around - how thick are they? 3-4mm?).

I'm in two minds at the more with regard the Leda coilovers I was offered, standard shocks or B6 shocks with around a 25mm drop - mainly for aesthetics. Although I may feel differently about that once I raise the rear a touch to get the sills level again!
Author:  tr7v8 [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Blimey that was quick they sat in my garage for 3+ years without being fitted! :lol:
Yup Castor affects toe, from memory on the 944 increasing castor means you'll get toe out but don't hold me to that.
Have a look at this link:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40
That's all I've used in the past setting up suspension. Also lumps of wood & balls of string.
For road use you'll probably find a standard set of quality shocks will be a vast improvement. Might be worth ringing around for some decent s/h top mounts as well. Someone may have upgraded a track car to adjustables, someone like EMC?
Author:  Hallsy [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1988 944 S Suspension Upgrades - suggestions?
Well it's quite a quick & easy job, although one of the eccentric nuts wouldn't budge underneath the car so I had to remove the mount and put it in a vice to undo the nut, even then it took a lot of leverage!! Certainly feels better for it anyway!!

I'll have a better look at the actual top mounts before I worry about replacing them, but yes, possibly worth looking at good second hand ones.

Those trackrite gauges look like an option, although very similar to a camber gauge I made some time ago with a level, just that my one needs to be preset using trig, then adjust until the bubble read vertical. As I said though, it does rely on level ground, which my driveway certainly isn't!! A friend of mine at a garage has some gauges so I'll probably pop over to see him at some point.
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