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MAF Kit
https://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=12213		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  kongsodoken [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  MAF Kit
After many hours searching I have come to the concluesion that this is the best Maf on the market

http://www.roguetuning.com/951_maf_kit_m-tune%C2%A9

I will however do a stelph install and use the factory airbox

anyone got any experience with this kit and any comments would be gratefully received :D
Author:  DavidL [ Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
It seems to be the most popular on rennlist. That and the vitesse system.
I picked up a LR Quad M system but haven't had it fitted yet. I get the impression a live mapping session is needed to make sure they are all running to capacity.
Well worth the change if you are planning this mind.
Author:  barks944 [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
I also have a solution that you might want to consider. Hopefully available within the next few months.

http://www.augmentautomotive.co.uk/augtronic
Author:  kongsodoken [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
barks944 wrote:
I also have a solution that you might want to consider. Hopefully available within the next few months.

http://www.augmentautomotive.co.uk/augtronic


Thanks I have been following your thread it seems a real good product .......

I'm not going to run high boost 0.8 bar max so I'm do I really the extra air flow from the MAF should I be looking at a MAP sensor and use the existing AFM :?
Author:  barks944 [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
Pretty much no modern aftermarket ECU's use a MAF/AFM sensor. The reason the MAF kits for the 944 use a MAF is because the solutions the vendors provide aren't easily re-mappable and as such the fuelling cannot be easily setup for individual requirements. The MAF does get round this issue but the sensors are expensive and don't for example deal well with boost leaks. It's also a bit slower to respond than a MAP sensor. Especially given the length of the intake on a turbo car, oh and they are expensive too!

My solution is different, I have spent the time and effort to design a whole new board with a new CPU and software that can talk over USB and bluetooth etc. This means I can support live on the road remapping as with any good modern aftermarket ECU without any kind of piggyback system. My tuning software is unique too, my girlfriend has mapped the fuelling on my car with no prior knowledge of tuning! This also means its plug and play without chopping wires or anything like that too.
Author:  kongsodoken [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
barks944 wrote:
Pretty much no modern aftermarket ECU's use a MAF/AFM sensor. The reason the MAF kits for the 944 use a MAF is because the solutions the vendors provide aren't easily re-mappable and as such the fuelling cannot be easily setup for individual requirements. The MAF does get round this issue but the sensors are expensive and don't for example deal well with boost leaks. It's also a bit slower to respond than a MAP sensor. Especially given the length of the intake on a turbo car, oh and they are expensive too!

My solution is different, I have spent the time and effort to design a whole new board with a new CPU and software that can talk over USB and bluetooth etc. This means I can support live on the road remapping as with any good modern aftermarket ECU without any kind of piggyback system. My tuning software is unique too, my girlfriend has mapped the fuelling on my car with no prior knowledge of tuning! This also means its plug and play without chopping wires or anything like that too.


OK I think I get that :? ......for someone that understands nothing about engines "ME" this is what I think your saying ... Rogue tuning state that the MAP sensor reads "true boost" and adjusts the timing to suit ...your system allows timing and fueling to be custom set in the live situation...... :?

It seems to me that rogue's big selling point is that at WOT the timing is set on actual boost i.e their "3d thingy" as a complete idiot when it comes to engines I can understand that logic....tell me what yours does in simple terms in this situation..I like the idea of not chopping wires :D
Author:  barks944 [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
What rogue describes is how he has converted the very simple original system to be a bit smarter, basically taking into account that the turbo takes some time to spool up once you have put your foot down.

Any good modern standalone ECU and indeed my solution doesn't have the problem of the original 944 DME which rogue is talking about here. So there is no need to *fix* it. My solution was designed to work with boost pressure from the start...... Compared to the original DME, my solution is also more accurate, has a more fine grained adjustment and adjusts it's ignition every single cylinder stroke for maximum response. I can also adjust ignition in real time using the knock sensor as a modern car would do.
Author:  kongsodoken [ Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
OK I'll give it ago :D when :bounce: :bounce: will you fit and tune if I bring the car to you?

Which is the best option TPS MAP MAF, is the AFM removed? can I modify the AFM to hide the MAF etc
Author:  barks944 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
You got PM. The 944 turbo has a proper TPS in already so I would say TPS and MAP for the 944 turbo. The AFM is removed. Can also offer a wasted spark ignition system to replace the distributor. Can support pretty much any modern ignition system. Also modern high impedence injectors work wonders in terms of improving the spray pattern and control of the fuelling.
Author:  kongsodoken [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
barks944 wrote:
You got PM. The 944 turbo has a proper TPS in already so I would say TPS and MAP for the 944 turbo. The AFM is removed. Can also offer a wasted spark ignition system to replace the distributor. Can support pretty much any modern ignition system. Also modern high impedence injectors work wonders in terms of improving the spray pattern and control of the fuelling.


Thanks getting excited now :D
Author:  kongsodoken [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
Barks944 and I have decided that there maybe many people on the forum that will be interested in this product so rather than going private we will post all the correspondance live so you can follow the process and results :D

so this is what I have sent on a PM

I am interested in driveability and reliability, it is not a track car
better performance is good so is fuel economy

I do not want any digital displays

wasted spark would be nice and I would like to fit modern injectors

TPS/MAP yes I would like to keep the look of the AFM I have access to engineering services can I drill the AFM out and fit a 3" clear pipe or if whatever goes in it's place can I modify so it still looks stock

My car has DP wastegate, performance exhaust, manual boost control, I beleive it is chipped

car should be on the road in Febuary, let me know your thoughts and costs
Author:  barks944 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
You can certainly keep the AFM in place for the factory look, although I do make use of the original wiring. Modern injectors and wasted spark ignition, as well as good tuning will improve economy. To further improve economy and performance closed loop knock and AFR control will be available at a later date.

Price wise we are talking about £650 for the 951 for the basic plug and play kit. Ignition and injectors etc will be extra. The basic kit will take about 1hr to install, I would require your DME for modification and it would be returned to you with the full kit. This would give a turn key, system for your 944/951.

My lux has covered several thousand miles with the system now and I have been extremely pleased with the results. My turbo should be back on the road in the next few weeks and then it will be off to the dyno with the lux for mapping. Then myself and two other chaps from this forum should hopefully be hitting the Nurburgring and Spa at the start of April in 951's fitted with this system. Preparing my own car and the others for this trip will require a lot of effort so I won't be offering the system generally until after that. I could probably fit you in though Kong. Is your car under the knife at the moment?
Author:  kongsodoken [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
How much extra for the ignition and injectors?

will the closed loop knock and AFR control be a bolt on once it is available?

my car will be back on the road in 2-3 weeks, I could send the DME to you at anytime you tell me when your ready

I'm happy to do this :D
Author:  barks944 [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
Price of injectors is ~£300 its mostly the cost of the injectors plus a few ECU tweaks. For the ignition it really depends on what you want. I could probably do a basic kit for ~£100 but the sky is the limit when it comes to the price of ignition systems :D. These would both be bolt on upgrades. AFR and knock would also be bolt on upgrades. Although the AFR would need a wideband controller fitted with a welded in exhaust bung. I might even offer advanced knock control from the start, this would be in addition to the knock features of the KLR that are already on the car. It would sit underneath if you like, optimising the ignition but with the KLR's ignition cut in the background as a second line of defence. I'm hoping my turbo will be back on its legs in 2-3 weeks too, so add on some time for mapping and final tests on the additional code for the turbo ECU and I should be ready to go.
Author:  kongsodoken [ Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MAF Kit
ooooh how I have lots of options :?

so I want the injectors and ignition :D .......I am happy with the sort of money we are talking about so build me the system that you would put in the car if it was yours......does not have to be the most expensive.....nor the cheapest "best bang for Buck"
I will not push you to finish it in your own time (is it done yet :lol: ) do the ignition system you rate for this application....Advanced knock control if you can ! (whatever that does :lol: )

happy to pay a deposit, or do what ever to get this going :bounce: :bounce:

don't you wish all customers were like me :lol:
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