Sudden grinding from gearbox in 1st and reverse

Waylander · **Posted:** Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:17 am

Quote:

I've just re-pinned and re-bushed the front linkage which has removed all of the fore/aft play but there is still significant side to side play from the rear selector... Need to replace that but I look at the prices people charge for them and my head goes "I'm sure I could make one..." Would be an interesting exercise before giving in and buying one at least :lol:

I have rebuilt 6-7 of the gear linkages on 968's and made a new pin for the cross locator arm to swap to rose joints rather than the plastic gas strut ball joint,

the 944 has a solid link , the 968 has an adjustable link, bit more work.

the slop comes from the Nylon Bush in the middle of the gearbox selector and the cross arm,

the ebay seller, partworks_de has a repair kit for about £30 thats works fine, the genuine article is all one part
944 424 013 02 £154.00

Prophead · **Posted:** Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:15 pm

scam75 wrote:

Prophead wrote:

scam75 wrote:

I'd check the rear pads and discs, handbrake mech and your brake back plates as a first port of call.

I do happen to know of an early 2.5 lux box as it happens, its up in Scotland so postage would need paid but sure I could get it for you for a decent price if it turns out you need it.

Stuart

sshhhhh.....I have first dibs on that box, for when I blow the one in my track car :bom:

Ha ha! Where are you in Scotland?

South East from Falkirk. Not too far from Roy.

Prophead · **Posted:** Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:23 pm

Gryphon wrote:

Prophead wrote:

scam75 wrote:

I do happen to know of an early 2.5 lux box as it happens, its up in Scotland so postage would need paid but sure I could get it for you for a decent price if it turns out you need it.

Stuart

sshhhhh.....I have first dibs on that box, for when I blow the one in my track car :bom:

At risk of going slightly off topic... you're running a lux box with the V8? I was under the impression that they weren't strong enough and were generally swapped out for tubo or S2 boxes?

As Scam75 said. However my car started life as a 2.0 924 so had skinnier torque tube shaft and transaxle input shaft. I swapped them both for 944 items for the stronger shafts and to be able to use a better clutch setup. It's a Rover v8 not a monster power LS as per all the yank swaps so no real need for turbo S box at 10x the price.

Gryphon · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:31 am

Waylander wrote:

I have rebuilt 6-7 of the gear linkages on 968's and made a new pin for the cross locator arm to swap to rose joints rather than the plastic gas strut ball joint,

the 944 has a solid link , the 968 has an adjustable link, bit more work.

the slop comes from the Nylon Bush in the middle of the gearbox selector and the cross arm,

the ebay seller, partworks_de has a repair kit for about £30 thats works fine, the genuine article is all one part
944 424 013 02 £154.00

Thanks Waylander, I'll probably take a punt on the nylon bush and some rose joints.

scam75 wrote:

All of the 016 boxes (I think all 944's use an 016 variant) are fairly tough and with decent oil change intervals and use of decent oil they should be good for lots of years and abuse. The only difference to an S2 box is more aggressive gearing which gives better acceleration traded off with lower top speed. So some racers go this road. The only box which is "tougher" is the AOR box, or turbo s box, which has shot peened shafts and hardened 1st and 2nd gears. It also benefits from an external oil cooler and an LSD which are both advantageous for hard driving. The LSD can be swapped in to any 016 box but you need a specific casing to use the oil cooler. Its also worth noting the square dash and oval dash use different mounts and different speedo drives so it's not a simple task to swap a later box in to an early car.

Get a decent 75/90 synthetic oil.

Stuart

I wonder what I read that had me thinking that they didn't like much more than the stock engine power... Thanks though, loads of interesting bits coming out in this thread!

I think I'm agreeing with you Matt, the Porsche manual does call for GL5, so a good GL5 is it.

At risk of going too far into "What Oil" debates... Looks like a Castrol/Mobil oil will be around £45, Red Line £55 and Swepco 201 £65. I have no problem spending the extra £20 for swepco, and the US forums worship the stuff...

scam75 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:47 am

Gryphon wrote:

Waylander wrote:

I have rebuilt 6-7 of the gear linkages on 968's and made a new pin for the cross locator arm to swap to rose joints rather than the plastic gas strut ball joint,

the 944 has a solid link , the 968 has an adjustable link, bit more work.

the slop comes from the Nylon Bush in the middle of the gearbox selector and the cross arm,

the ebay seller, partworks_de has a repair kit for about £30 thats works fine, the genuine article is all one part
944 424 013 02 £154.00

Thanks Waylander, I'll probably take a punt on the nylon bush and some rose joints.

scam75 wrote:

All of the 016 boxes (I think all 944's use an 016 variant) are fairly tough and with decent oil change intervals and use of decent oil they should be good for lots of years and abuse. The only difference to an S2 box is more aggressive gearing which gives better acceleration traded off with lower top speed. So some racers go this road. The only box which is "tougher" is the AOR box, or turbo s box, which has shot peened shafts and hardened 1st and 2nd gears. It also benefits from an external oil cooler and an LSD which are both advantageous for hard driving. The LSD can be swapped in to any 016 box but you need a specific casing to use the oil cooler. Its also worth noting the square dash and oval dash use different mounts and different speedo drives so it's not a simple task to swap a later box in to an early car.

Get a decent 75/90 synthetic oil.

Stuart

I wonder what I read that had me thinking that they didn't like much more than the stock engine power... Thanks though, loads of interesting bits coming out in this thread!

I think I'm agreeing with you Matt, the Porsche manual does call for GL5, so a good GL5 is it.

At risk of going too far into "What Oil" debates... Looks like a Castrol/Mobil oil will be around £45, Red Line £55 and Swepco 201 £65. I have no problem spending the extra £20 for swepco, and the US forums worship the stuff...

No worries! If your box is noisy, swepco 201 is like treacle and will quieten it down. You'll be there for about 3 months getting the stuff into the box though! :lol:

I have got some Royal Purple oil to fill my AOR once it is fixed. This gets good reviews and a few of the community here and on PCGB use it. I got 3 litres for just over £50 delivered from Genesis Engines. For a standard box with no obvious noises I'd just go down the road of an economy 75/90 synth, Halfords and the like will be a litre for a tenner and you will notice a difference if its overdue a change. 2 litres will fill your box. If the box has bearing wear then swepco is the way to go for longevity and quietness. Swepco can't be used with a friction plate LSD and indeed any box with an LSD should use oil formulated for an LSD, such as Royal Purple.

There is no reason not to use as good an oil as you can get however if you decide to do so and after reading up on Royal Purple I'd recommend it if you want to go premium.

And for what it's worth a standard 016 box will handle 300BHP+ no bother! I've even read of cases of 500BHP+ being handled.

Stuart

scam75 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:53 am

Prophead wrote:

South East from Falkirk. Not too far from Roy.

Not far then! I was up seeing Roy last Sunday getting him to blast the metal plates for inside my Lindsey DPW before I put it back together. He also done a top job on my wheels and calipers. Trying to think if we've met before, do you know Alastair (Sulzeruk) as well? Used to go up there loads when he was into '44s.

Stuart

Prophead · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:44 pm

scam75 wrote:

Prophead wrote:

South East from Falkirk. Not too far from Roy.

Not far then! I was up seeing Roy last Sunday getting him to blast the metal plates for inside my Lindsey DPW before I put it back together. He also done a top job on my wheels and calipers. Trying to think if we've met before, do you know Alastair (Sulzeruk) as well? Used to go up there loads when he was into '44s.

Stuart

First up, apologies for side tracking the thread......

I don't think we have met, which is surprising. I've met Alastair once, unfortunately it was after he cleared is lock-up out of 944 spares for next to nothing

Known Roy about 3 years, round there fairly frequently so surprised we've not bumped into each other.

Prophead · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:46 pm

Gryphon wrote:

Waylander wrote:

I have rebuilt 6-7 of the gear linkages on 968's and made a new pin for the cross locator arm to swap to rose joints rather than the plastic gas strut ball joint,

the 944 has a solid link , the 968 has an adjustable link, bit more work.

the slop comes from the Nylon Bush in the middle of the gearbox selector and the cross arm,

the ebay seller, partworks_de has a repair kit for about £30 thats works fine, the genuine article is all one part
944 424 013 02 £154.00

Thanks Waylander, I'll probably take a punt on the nylon bush and some rose joints.

scam75 wrote:

All of the 016 boxes (I think all 944's use an 016 variant) are fairly tough and with decent oil change intervals and use of decent oil they should be good for lots of years and abuse. The only difference to an S2 box is more aggressive gearing which gives better acceleration traded off with lower top speed. So some racers go this road. The only box which is "tougher" is the AOR box, or turbo s box, which has shot peened shafts and hardened 1st and 2nd gears. It also benefits from an external oil cooler and an LSD which are both advantageous for hard driving. The LSD can be swapped in to any 016 box but you need a specific casing to use the oil cooler. Its also worth noting the square dash and oval dash use different mounts and different speedo drives so it's not a simple task to swap a later box in to an early car.

Get a decent 75/90 synthetic oil.

Stuart

I wonder what I read that had me thinking that they didn't like much more than the stock engine power... Thanks though, loads of interesting bits coming out in this thread!

I think I'm agreeing with you Matt, the Porsche manual does call for GL5, so a good GL5 is it.

At risk of going too far into "What Oil" debates... Looks like a Castrol/Mobil oil will be around £45, Red Line £55 and Swepco 201 £65. I have no problem spending the extra £20 for swepco, and the US forums worship the stuff...

Slightly less pricey but still premium are Millers oils, you can get them from OPIE oils.

Gryphon · **Posted:** Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:37 am

Thanks guys - and no worries about derailment

RP max-gear look good, but not sure how you got three litres for just over £50, it's coming out at £72 for me. As the bottles are just under a litre seems prudent to get three...

Millers looks like a good cheaper alternative, but can't find anywhere that actually states it's safe for yellow metals.

We're mid way through quite a big running gear restoration on an early MX5 at the moment and they are very close on oils specifications so I'll see if I can combine with what we need for that and get something in bulk - although no RP bulk options...

I'd never really considered that having the diff sharing oil with the transmission would make oil selection a headache :lol:

Matt749 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:31 am

Hi Gryphon,

You got me thinking back to when I changed the transaxle oil in mine. I went for this:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-899-motul- ... f-oil.aspx

It specifically states it meets GL4 and GL5 and is safe for yellow metal. I seem to remember that a lot of the oils I looked at were GL5 but made vague claims to be compatible with GL4 but from what I read, that compatibility is more related to the gearbox spec and any yellow metal content than anything else. As this (and some Valvoline I seem to recall) oils specifically mentioned both GL4 and GL5 I felt this was a safe bet. Also 3 litres comes in under your £50 target.

I also looked at the Swepco and Royal Purple options but they appeared more US based and were very expensive here. Clearly Scam got a good deal.

I think you have a few options anyway and I hope this helps.

BR.

scam75 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:09 am

Hello again

Yes apologies for derailment, glad no offence taken! Must arrange to meet up at some point then maybe at Roy's for a natter and tyre kick. Roy will enjoy that too! Possibly one Sunday afternoon?

Back on track, when I got my RP Genesis Engines had a buy it now/best offer for 3 litres. And even the buy it now price was cheaper than anywhere else. I managed to get another tenner off with best offer. Offer is still on:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/01300-Royal- ... SwhEla9C1v

Genesis are offering £19.99 each plus £5.99 delivery buy it now. I got a further tenner off negotiating.

Even without that it is £66 for 3 bottles delivered.

Stuart

Gryphon · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:00 am

Quick update - The more I listened to the gearbox, the more I thought that maybe it is a bit noisy... and rightly or wrongly bought some Swepco 201. I had tried to get some RP on the deal you linked to Stuart (thanks!) but they only had 2 bottles left in stock.

Then I did more reading, watched youtube videos etc, and realised that it is indeed my clutch rubber that's failed. I was just thrown by the noise coming from behind me rather than in front. I do have some lash in the drivetrain but not the loud clunks that I had expected from the clutch failure. Looks like I've got myself a winter job

Good timing, as the MX5 is finally off axle stands and MOT'd (only one advisory for a split pin I'd missed, d'oh :oops:

). It already shames the 944 on handling with my dodgy home geo, looking forward to seeing what a proper geo and corner weighting do for it! On the plus side, there is now a car on the fleet that the 44 can out-accelerate :lol:

Cheers for all the advice!

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Sudden grinding from gearbox in 1st and reverse

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