Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

If I am honest it took me a good few hours to get my confidence behind the wheel of that car. The control of the KWs in terms of comfort and "general" road holding seemed good to me, but upon stretching the car further and further the car really did surprise me after a good few hours driving it, and the finger marks left by my passenger. But I really did enjoy it when I put faith into the car. That said, it did feel like it would be tricky on the limit, something the seller (a specialist) also said, especially compared to my MX-5 and probably even the M3 to a certain extent. The M3 and MX-5 are easier to drive faster if you get that, but the 944 could match the M3, if not surpass it according to a passenger I took out in both, but IMO it did take more effort and balls to commit with the Turbo.

Are you on Billies now Oli? I'd be interested to give that a go TBH if the offer is open ; My 205 GTi on those was superb and if the MX-5 was not on Gaz coilovers I reckon I may have got the Billies for it, especially when they were a factory option. I do pop to London now and again with my sister living centrally there now, but I reckon we could find somewhere with some good open roads to give the cars a go.

Chas,

Interesting comments there. Thanks. I certainly didn't bond with your car in the 15-20 mins that I was driving it. I do recall being very underwhelmed on a number of points; our host for the day (Phil? Pete?) drove it before me and was very vocal about how fast and how capable it was and I found it neither so thought that I was having an off-day for some reason.

Yes, the S2 is on Billies. Along with newly rebuilt top mounts, wishbone ball joints and bushes and a full (and expensive) geo by Rapid Mechanical. Suffice it to say that I'm very happy with it indeed. You'd be very welcome to drive it, either in town or a little further afield. When would suit you?


Oli.

I'm going to blame the heat soak . Turbos and hot air do not mix.[/excuses]. For some time it did feel faster than the M3 I have now; the whack of power is something I won't forget, but you really have to wring the Munich's beast's neck to get the full amount of power which I guess doesn't help!

ATM things are busy for me! It would probably be early August TBH, if not even September. It seems I cannot stand still for now.

I went for Koni inserts and then M030 roll bars. Car feels great. Just had a geo so looking forward to some proper playing next.

Porsche fitted a smaller dia rear AR bar on late 944 turbos which suggests they were playing safe and setting the cars up to understeer at the limit rather than oversteer. Perhaps the geo settings reflect this too. The factory camber settings a quite conservative and there's certainly grip to be found in the corners with a little more negative camber.

Well - I agree - some great posts with differing opinions...

However, I still think renewing old springs are important, if you want to complete the package for the front suspension, whatever struts etc. you happen to choose. The H&R Sport springs lower the front end by approx 25mm and being a strengthened unit, enhances any performances gained by upgraded shocks being fitted.

Dave
CT

It's not that simple. The specifications of every part of the chassis need to be matched to each other, which includes springs, shock absorbers, tyres, chassis flex etc etc etc. Changing one item without changing the rest to suit will potentially do more harm than good (fitting larger wheels to a car changes the dynamics of the tyre which is why 'big wheels' often ruin the ride and handling). Presuming that the replacement shock absorbers have the same damping coefficients as the standard ones then I'd be very wary about fitting replacement springs with different spring rates. The spring rate of a spring will change slightly with age and use but not nearly as much as people think, and 'old' original springs will work better with new dampers of standard spec. than a random aftermarket spring.


Oli.

This^^^plus an uprated rear AR bar. Don't pay silly money for an 18mm bar from a breaker though, think I read Porsche sell a 19mm version for around £100.

Hi there,

Lots of good advice on this subject. I'd like to pick brains as well.

I have a 1985.5 2.5 Lux which I have been improving and have now taken on the track a couple of times. The engine is now in good health and the Brakes are now EBC slotted and grooved disks with yellow stuff pads.

I think the car leans too far in corners and I want to reduce this roll. I have fitted a 25.5mm hollow front ARB and an 18mm rear ARB with new Porsche rubber bushes and this has helped but not enough. The car is still on its original 1985 shocks as far as I can tell so this seems like the next step.

I want to upgrade the suspension as well as lowering the car by about 20mm but am debating either the new GAZ Gold coilover kit with rear helper springs (GGA038) or replacement shocks and lowered springs with increased stiffness (with re-indexed torsion bars). I'm thinking Koni adjustable shocks and H&R front springs.

I am conscious that the 944 has very good balance and I don't want to mess with that. I can't see how I can fit stiffer springs at the front without needing to fit stiffer torsion bars to compensate at the rear.

I would get GAZ to spec me coilovers that where for fast road and occasional track day rather than a stiff motorsport set up. I think I'd get a GAZ specialist to fit them and make sure the rear coilover spring/torsion bar stiffness was set up to match the front springs.

Any advice welcome.

Thanks

I'd replace all 4 shocks with Biltein B6 (Non adjustable damping) sport units (Front Inserts / Rear telescopics)
and not lower it first.

This will save you from adjusting front and rear ride heights and Torsion bar spring plates or re-indexing

This will also not give the problem of the front wishbones changing to an incorrect inclination when lowered, which will
make the car's roll angle worst than standard and can only be corrected with an expensive wishbone set-up.

Then fit 16" Wheels and Track day tyres, this lot will step up the performance a considerable level on trackdays and the car will also perform better on the road without too many issues caused from fitting harder springs, a lowered ride height and incorrect wishbone angles etc...


R

Thanks.

You make a good argument. I do also have some 994S front springs which I might fit. They are supposed to be a bit stiffer but the torsions bars were the same as the LUX.

I have 15 inch deep dish 7x8 Fuchs which I want to keep on the car and they are quite a bit lighter than other wheel options. I may drop to a 55 profile to access track rubber.

Any reason why you don’t recommend the adjustable koni’s? Are the B6 that adaptable?

Nice, the Fuch's are light and yes you could fit 205/50/15 & 225/50/15 if both are available in the same compound make or even find (2) 7'x or 8" rims and fit the same rim and tyre on each corner these car's respond well on a Square set up, with a wider rear it cause make the balance understeer a bit as the rear slip angle is different to the fronts and when turning in the front tucks in first and the rear doesn't move as much but then can break away quicker.

Koni's are Twin tube Shock design better for comfort, slower to respond than the newer Mono tube High pressure gas upside down units that Bilstein make.

The car will drive much stiffer with a set of Bilsteins (Better for trackday handling) and the 924S Springs also no problem.

The B6's are an Insert on the front legs and a telescopic complete unit on the rear, all easy to fit.

R

Thanks again.

Interesting point on the square set up. I currently run 215/60 R15 on all four wheels as the was supposed to be the factory fitment on these wheels (I have the original brochure). Thus I currently have a square set up. I would try to do the same with lower profiles but clearly there would be less wriggle room. Would you say it is possible to get a square figment on these wheels with 50 or 55 profile?

The springs I have are 944S ones. My reading of the figment table on Clarke’s Garage leads me to believe these are 3535N as opposed my current ones which should be 2946N. Quite a step up. The 944S front springs are the stiffest of all those listed on Clarke’s for the 944 and 968. Weird. All I can think is they used it to compensate for the heavier 944S engine. If so they may be a bit to stiff for my car and unbalance it.

I can try it out.

Yes 15" never has such a good selection of tyres available, especially for track use.
Are you running a 215/60/15 on the front 7" Rim ? and the same on the 8" Rear?

If so this will be ok for road use, but not help your track day pursuits as the front rim is too narrow for the tyre and the sidewall and you'll get a lot of rock and roll!

I ran a 944 once with 205/50/15 's on all four 7x15" Cookie's and it was ok

Having tried, tested and evaluated probably 20+ different sets of wheels on 24/44/68 Porsche's the sweet spot
is 205/55/16 and a 7x16" rim.

If you got a semi track tyre like the Nankang NS2-R in his size and a set of 16's this would give you a big benefit
for track handling especially with a set of B6 Bilstein's.

I wonder if the free open length of the 944S Springs is the same as the 2.5 8v ? Ideally they should be smaller if they are a heavier spring rate otherwise your ride height will go up.

You could cut a small 1/2 coil off if so? It's not ideal but he Coil end locates in a slot on the lower spring pan so this is no big deal and people have done it many times...

Or if you want to go one step further, have a Collar welded on to your strut bodies, then you can use 2.5" ID Race coils
alter the ride height and choose your choice of spring rate, although once you start doing this type of thing you'll probably wnd up fitting stiffer torsion bars, then Anti roll bars and the quest for handling improvements can be endless....





http://924srr27l.co.uk/suspension/


R