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| 928 S4 advice http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=22488 |
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| Author: | map747 [ Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 928 S4 advice |
Hi folks. I have been offered a 1987S4 with 80,000 miles, new mot but no service history. The chap who owns it has hardly driven it in 3 year but i trust him and he says its a good example. The cost is £8500. i have only seen pictures so far, it does look good. Any thoughts? Thanks. Martin. |
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| Author: | mikec [ Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
Sounds interesting. Why has it got no service history? History lost, self maintained? If he has had work done on it who did it? You could call them and see if they remember the car. With no proof of history you'll be looking at full service including cam belt and waterpump which will be expensive. Not sure what he current cost of a porsche waterpump is but if I remember correctly it is over £700. The preferred aftermarket pump (Laso) is no longer available and I'm not sure what the quality of the alternatives is like. It's a crucial part and failure could be catastrophic. Also if you don't already know about it read up on thrust bearing failure which would be an engine killer. Ideally you would want to check crank end play but this doesn't seem reasonable while doing a test drive. Check the oil for metal glitter. Also make sure the car gets up to full temperature and then ensure it doesn't stall while at traffic lights etc. Check for rust in the rear quarters, especially around the window trim and the gas cap. Check the fuel pipes underneath for rust if you can, especially around the drivers rear wheel area. Rotten pipes are difficult to replace. Fuel pipes in the engine bay probably need replaced as well (on my to do list). At 80k the interior should be in good condition. Mine is similar mileage and the only real defect is a worn piping on the driver seat. Good Luck Mike |
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| Author: | stratfordshark [ Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
Could be wonderful, could be an expensive mistake - the point being there's precious little info to go on! The MOT is a positive in terms of gross problems, but do you know whether there were any advisories which would give you more of an idea of imminent costs? What is MOT history under his ownership? Will give you some idea of what's been attended to when you check advisories and fail points going back a few years. Unless they have been done recently by the seller, then at 80,000 miles you would need to change engine mounts, possibly rear transmission mounts, and shocks all round as they will be tired and it's a heavy car! The braking system is superb when functioning properly, but again at this mileage you probably have pad lift in some or all calipers which will be jamming the pads and preventing full braking action and affecting pedal feel. As previous poster said, timing belt is probably due as they should be every 4-5 years regardless of mileage, and other parts of timing belt system need to be checked for wear at same time (water pump, tensioner pulley bearings, cam and oil pump sprockets). Probably a long time since diff and transmission oil changed, if ever! If car changes gear smoothly (firm but not harsh) then transmission oil level correct at least. Parts of the HVAC system (actuators, solenoids, temp sensors) may have failed by now and need replacing but they are relatively cheap - the thing is a vacuum problem anywhere will pull down the whole system unless it's been capped off. The most potentially expensive parts of HVAC system are aircon but only if compressor or condenser needs replacement. Is aircon working well? You need it with so much glass in a 928 and like the brakes, it's a fantastic system when working correctly. Usual used car caveats apply regarding checking wheel bearings for wear, upper and lower ball joints, track rod ends and steering rack bushes. 928 has power this and power that and lots of relatively sophisticated systems for its age, so you want to check all these are working ok, or at least identify which are not and give you some negotiating room. At 80,000 in our cool climate most of the rubber under the intake should be OK, but aged knock sensor connectors could be losing you some power as the ignition retards. If still original this would be nice mileage to replace plug leads, coil leads, distibutors and rotors. the ignition lead set for S4 is a bit pricey - around £200. Also agree that all bets are off if the crank end play has been allowed to move beyond spec, to point where crank thrust bearing has suffered damage. This should be checked as part of inspection. I think the best thing you can do at this point is have it looked over by someone who really knows 928s. Above is counsel of perfection. You could always buy the damn thing, take your time checking/fixing things, and if it's a disaster move it on with faults declared and you won't take too bad a hit! Even really nice 928s are a work in progress — sophisticated cars so there's always something which can benefit from attention. Assuming the block is ok then the only really expensive items if you're not doing it yourself are the engine mounts and timing belt jobs. If you're not planning to do all or most of the work yourself, then be prepared to spend a lot on catch-up maintenance, even on this promising example. |
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| Author: | map747 [ Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
Thank you gents for taking the time to reply so comprehensively. Looking at past mot and the current one, the only advisory seems to be thinking front pads. The car has been indoors alot even the window scrapers look good. I know these cars are expensive but I have always wanted an s4 and it would be a rolling project and with current values, this one is just within reach. Do you think there will be further price rises? I will check on all the points you have both raised. Thank you again. Martin. |
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| Author: | stratfordshark [ Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
Prices may continue to rise as they become more 'affordable' compared with air-cooled 911s, but most of collector interest focuses on the earliest and latest cars. It sounds as if you are going to be hand-on, which massively reduces ownership cost. 928s are great DIY prospect as the quality is so high, and they are engineered in such a logical way. The problem with relying on garages is less costly and more that so few have enough experience of this model. If the only advisory refers to consumables then I would go for it, especially as you trust your friend's opinion of the car. £8500 would be loose change in the air-cooled 911 world! Allow £2K per year though for big project as part of bringing her back to top notch condition |
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| Author: | Sean Smallman [ Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
Great advice as always. The market has definitely firmed up for everything other than low mileage original cars. No point buying a Porsche at this level if you are hoping to profit from it, you will generally spend more than its worth sorting it out. You wont regret it. 
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| Author: | mikec [ Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
I see you are in Livingston. If you are going to get the car inspected I would speak to Brian Miller in Edinburgh. He's an Independent Porsche specialist and is familiar with these cars. He has a "Hammer" and can run a diagnostic sweep on the car as well as give the car a good look over and check for crank end play. Brian is also a TIPEC member. I'm also in Edinburgh if you want a second opinion I could possibly come through to Falkirk. If I can find it (I've just moved house and everything is boxed) I also have a diagnostic scanner which will identify failed knock sensors etc. Mike EDIT: Actually I don't think the 87 is compatable with my scanner. Think the diagnostic plug is different |
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| Author: | stratfordshark [ Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
Yes Mike is correct, the 87 cars had the 12 pin rectangular diagnostic socket on the ECU plate, not the 19 pin round socket under passenger side 'hump' of digidash cars. Also though the 87 has the port, the ECU software was not yet upgraded to talk to it! John Speake at JDS Porsche can arrange upgrade of the chips to enable diagnostic tool to be used. |
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| Author: | map747 [ Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 928 S4 advice |
Again thanks for the replys. I think i will definitely go for the S4...i just need to sell my Mercedes ML55 AMG..great car in its own right but not alot of interest so far. Kind regards. Martin |
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