AlpineTurbo wrote:
I'm going to go against the grain here. I've owned a car on super low mileage Wilwoods; think barely 200 miles. IMHO yes they were better than what was on the car but it was only because the stock brakes were awful for the application ; anything would have been an improvement. When I kept the discs and went to sliding pot Cosworth calipers on my Series 1 Escort RS Turbo that made the Wilwoods look feeble in every way ; except looks. The piston size was a questionable size for the car (IMHO they should have been 20% bigger) but it's what came with a Wilwood kit.... The Cosworth calipers also allowed me to keep the stock 15" wheels.
I suspect other Wilwood owners are the same ; if they came from an inadequate or quite often a seized brake set with pattern pads and shot discs most things would be an improvement.
I've also owned a 944 turbo on Big Blacks. That setup does stop well but you need to give the pedal a shove and the pedal feeling is numb.
If it were me I'd do the following:
-Non-S2/Turbo ; the ATEs : Either get very good fast road pads like Performance Frictions or Pagid RS29s or look to getting a Boxster based setup on the right adaptors.
-S2/Turbo : M030 brakes ; simple. They can stop Paul Anderson's race 928 and have been regarded as a very solid setup with Pagid RS29s.
I've used the RS29s on a couple of cars including trying brand new cars with them and they are a very impressive pad. Pricey but superb. I plan to use a set in the M3.
About the Wilwoods it's not just me that's said that. I'm sure a known Porsche Racing specialist has as does a well known Ford tuning outfit ; Norris Motorsport.
Yes it goes without saying that unless the maths are done and correctly, just bolting on a set of calipers on will and can
make the braking worst or not as effective as you want like your Ford Escort Example.
Many Brake companies just offer you a KIT and don't take in many or any details that could have some adverse effects
Wilwood have always been a good quality Budget supplier of calipers, a quarter or more less cost than the big boys like AP and Alcon etc..
You found the Big blacks good but needing a lot of pedal effort, this is because all brake systems work on different
bore and bias sizes and pedal pressures etc..
All these contributing factors need looking at and calculating if your looking to change either calipers on any or both axles : Piston sizes, disc diameters, pad size/shape wheel and tyre circumferences , vehicle weight and the front / rear distribution etc... all need calculating.
I had this done professionally and with a computer programme the following can be calculated:
- Brake Line pressure
- Piston area
- Clamping force per disc
- Torque per Disc
- Contact patch force
- System front / rear bias percentage
And one of the most important the amount of
- Pedal Pressure to lock each axle
For example the Sliding ate calipers (944 / 924S) V the Wilwood 20 piston system set up I went for
compare
Clamping force per disc in psiate -1460 Front 1034 Rear
Wilwood - 1608 Front 1090 Rear
Caliper Piston area ate -14.186" Front 9.621" Rear
Wilwood - 15.587" Front 11.879" Rear
Pedal pressure to lock Lbsate -94 Front 82 Rear
Wilwood - 84 Front 68 Rear
So the new Wilwood system has more power / torque and with less pedal pressure required compared
to the standard ate system, as you can imagine this on a standard car would be an impressive increase
in the amount of braking power available with less pedal effort but even more so on a car with 230kg less vehicle weight.
I drove a 968CS racecar last week at Oulton park with Big blacks and then also my 924 on this Wilwood system
The 968 was approx 160kg heavier than mine and the brakes were good but not as strong as the Wilwoods.
So I appreciate on some applications (as any component on a car) benefits can sometimes be lacking but if the maths and theories are applied good results can be achieved and hence it's unfair to declare that in this case Wilwoods Calipers are not up to much.
I do agree however that other calipers like AP, Alcon and brembo are stronger (Less flex) and even better quality but in regard to this post and the questions on what's available and what's the best to be fitted etc...the Wilwoods do offer a good upgrade and value for money, but some mods and calculations are required there's no bolt on immediate kit available yet.
I may put together and make some kits up to sell one day as there is some demand for such.
R