Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

Hi guys and girls,

Ive recently purchased my first 944 S2 and im loving it!
only issue is it feels a bit wollowy around corners, ive been looking into coilover kits but completely baffled with what to go for.
Any recommendations / suggestions? or what not to go for?

Thanks,

Joe

Hi Joe

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new car, good choice.

People often make the mistake by fitting coilovers / poly bushes etc.

These cars are very old now and often the suspension is a long way past it's best.
They were pretty good when new, so fitting new parts will be a massive improvement.

I was having this conversation with Chris from Centre Gravity last week.
He was saying that in many cases coilovers are not required.

Depends on the end use of the car. Road, agree with Jason, a re fresh of OEM shocks and rubber bushes will do the job nicely combining firmer but compliant for most end uses. Track, then depends on budget from KW at the top, GAZ in the middle and Spax at the entry end. But these will be less compliant for road use. KW is the most sophisticated and you pay top money for this. GAZ offer fast road to race options. Use the search function to see plenty of discussions for all

I have Gaz Gold on my car. Poly-bushed front roll bar and adjustable rear drop links, rest is standard. Running 300lb front springs. No coil-overs or rear helper springs. I have masses of adjustability and the car is great for fast road or track.

Getting the car properly set-up after refreshing the suspension is a must. I also have the 968 type castor mounts which make a difference.

Stuart

Agree with all previous. I did mine in stages. Went for Koni inserts on the front with matching Konis on the rear, very good value for money, good ride set full soft at rear and 50% stiff at front. New arb rubber all round and the stiffening brackets for the front arb support. 968 castor block on the front. Handled really well on road and track.

Then went for M030 arbs, front Hartech comp wishbones, front Koni coilover kit from Paragon with Racers edge top mounts and 220lb front springs, 968 torsion bars on rebuilt axle, reindexed lowered to CS height. Now run Konis at 50% rear and 75% front, on 17" Cup 2's with rear spacers on track, 16" D90 on road. CoG set up. Stiffer but not too harsh, not as compliant on bumpy roads or wet surfaces but great on dry track.
So as has been said depends what you use it for. If you don't want to track it or just occasionally then stick with refurbed standard it's pretty good. Too stiff, too low and you might end up in a hedge like I did. Mea culpa.

If you want a decent road set up, whatever you do, don't go for original struts or original rear shocks. They were last manufactured over 12 years ago, so even "new" stuff is already worn out.

I went for Bilstein B6 inserts in my converted original struts, which are great. I can given you chapter and verse on how to do this, as can many others on here.

The absolutely biggest change wasn't the hardware, it was the geometry set up by Center Gravity. Cheap, it isn't but so worth it.

Cheers,
Bryan

This is ALMOST the most sensible thing ever written about suspension on 944's. The Bilstein inserts are simply superb in just about every way (very compliant, very well damped, very communicative, not very harsh, not uncomfortable to ride on), the only downside is that they take some engineering to make fit. Well worth the effort and money (although they are not the most expensive option by a long, long way)

However Bryan then went on to write this:



Which probably IS the most sensible thing ever written about 944 suspension. A good set-up will make much more difference than new shocks, and new shocks without a full geo is a waste of money. There are cheaper people than Centre Gravity but choosing someone who knows what they are doing is essential.


Oli.

Center Gravity are excellent but Chris rightfully charges what he's worth and there used to be quite a wait for his attention. Promax or the like know what they're doing and have the kit, so I'd consider getting a quote from someone like them too.

Thanks for the advise guys, appreciate it.

Probably feel more confused now than I did before haha

My car is going to be predominately road use and the occasional track day and will not be my daily,
was looking to lower it slightly also but want to achieve better hanndling, this was my reasoning for looking into coilovers.

Thanks again

IMHO after driving a couple of 944s these are my thoughts.

I'd go with two choices: the Bilstein B6s if you can find someone who can engineer them to fit ; put simply they are a superb shock absorber. Or the KWv3s but they do seem to cost more and more with time. Until I bought a car with them fitted I'd have never considered them. You really can have your cake and eat it with them. I'd disagree about the polybushes ; alot of people make the mistake of fitting cheap polybushes thinking they are "all the same". If it were me I'd either go genuine Porsche/Hartech or go with something from SuperPro/SuperFlex ; I've been in a couple of cars with their bush kits on and you would never know that they were polybushed ; they just glid down the road. Cheap, however, they are not, but they do allow the suspension to do what it was intended to do (they check the crush load ratings on the bushes and poly deformation etc.) and outlive alot of cheaper bushes, FloFlex being one example.

Setup goes a very long way in 944s, and similar cars of the breed. Chris at Centre Gravity is about the best in the business but he does have a large waiting list I understand. I wouldn't discount ProMax either, their setup on my 951 was pretty great.

It's interesting to look at the ebb and flow of suspension recommendations for 944's. 9 years ago everyone raved about Koni's, and I think Neil Haughey was the only one who said they weren't that fantastic. I bought them and liked them, but did have problems with the rears (one of them went back and was replaced) and they haven't lasted quite as long as I'd like.

KWv3's were all the rage about 3 or 4 years ago and lots of people had them fitted but they were £1300 or so then, as a special price. When my Koni's went pop a couple of months ago I called Promax about some KW's and came away without a firm price as they wouldn't commit to one given that fitting them and lowering the rear beam could take a long, long time. However it was clear there wouldn't be any change from £2k and it may be nearer £2500 or more. For reference (and I say this with considerable caution) I have driven two 944's with the KW's on (one Turbo and one S2) and I didn't rate either of them that highly. Both of them were cars owned by other people on here and were new to me so I was unfamiliar with all aspects of the cars, which may have been part of the problem.

Bilsteins are a bit of a new thing and hardly anyone had them 6 months ago but there seem to be a few people who have taken the plunge recently, including me, and I rate them very very highly indeed. Some of this will be the "new" effect, whereby anything new is going to be better than anything that is old and worn out, however I'd not hesitate in saying that they are very good indeed. It remains to be seen how they last but Bilsteins have an excellent reputation and I am hopeful that they will give many more years of service than the Koni's did.


Oli.

If you decide to go for Bilsteins, you need to cut the original strut, weld a threaded collar on, insert the Bilstein into the strut and thread the top onto the collar to hold it in place. I know a supplier of the collar that you'll need and also an engineer who will do the cutting and welding for you. I can pass on their details if you want to go down that route.

I also wanted a road focused setup, but with occasional track use. What I've ended up with is just that. I've sacrificed some extra tyre wear in favour of negative camber, but the benefits (in the dry) are massive. I drive an Audi RS4 as my daily driver and I'm not kidding you, the handling in the 944 S2 is right up there with the RS4. As I said earlier though, most of this is down to the geo setup.

Don't be afraid to ask as many questions as you like. The guys on here are very knowledgeable and I've learned loads from them. Refreshing your suspension is a hefty investment, so make sure you're happy that you're going to get exactly what suits you.

Cheers,
Bryan

As well as the ride height, the bump and rebound is adjustable separately on KW's . I used someones track day settings and on a smooth road the damping is excellent, on a poorly surfaced B road it's a different matter. It's all in the damper set up I think. When I bought my KW's I had change from £1500 after Center Gravity did the geo. Not sure I'd spend £2.5k though.

One of the cars Olly drove was mine .

I have to ask, have you driven a RWD car with a plated LSD before Oli? I did notice that at normalish speeds it did want to understeer a little, and this is something someone else commented on who was originally looking at a 968 Club Sport. It took me a good while to commit in the corners over my S2 but it did tighten up with speed and there is no way I'd have gone that fast in some bends in my S2 as an owner of a low mileage (well, 78k) S2 also said to me. It went from feeling like it may lose grip to suddenly gripping harder as the diff seemed to be kicking in. I really should have taken that car on a trackday before I left to see where the limits ended, although they did reduce dramatically when cold with the LSD probably not helping matters! Trying to go sideways at 40MPH with a little boost anyone, in cold and very wet conditions?

Even lowered by quite a way mine wasn't too bad on country roads. If I'd have kept the car I would have raised the car 10mm all round, even if it did look the business at its height!

My RST with an LSD was no different, albeit the *refurbished* viscous variety. Go into a corner with no throttle and the front would want to wash out, even with Nankang NS-2R tyres warmed up. With a bit of thottle the line tightened up more than I have had in any other FWD car and I've had a few without LSDs, to the point rear end grip would become an issue if I lifted off. That was on Ledas @ £1.2k when I last checked, but IMHO it was a little firm on the road, but an improvement over tired RS Turbo shocks by quite a way.

The M3 feels 'normalish' but I may to get the diff checked out. OTOH it is quite easy to hold a drift, but I would not know about that...

I had an uprated series one RST back in 89/90 and it took some effort to unwind the steering coming out of turns/roundabouts with the power on. I also noticed the same feeling of locking/unlocking of the diff powering out of junctions on my 2.8 injection capri and 944 turbo.