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 Post subject: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:03 pm 
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Hi, hello from a newbie to the forum and PLEASE HELP if you can:)

I bought my Feb 1987 (220 BHP with ABS) 944T back in 1988 so have owned it a few years now! It had a head gasket done back in 2001 by Strasse in Leeds. Last year it popped its head gasket for the second time. I got the head skimmed and it is just in tolerance but on cleaning the surface of the block prior to refitting the head found that there is a crack in the No 3 Cylinder:( I have called a dozen or more Porsche breakers, e-mailed a dozen specialist Porsche dealers, read 100s of posts on forums and looked on flea-bay for a good block or short engine.

Some views as to my best plan of action from a very reputable specialist:.......

1. Used engine.
As you indicate in your email, you have to be sceptical with used engines, a 944 turbo engine will run even with a heavily scored bore, but it's time on this earth will be limited, yet a private individual or even your average scrap yard will advertise it as "Running" or as a "Good engine", without running a compression, leakdown test and taking the head off to inspect the bores, you will never know how good it is.
The other thing with a 944 Turbo engine, as you are probably aware following 27 years of ownership, sometimes the cost of keeping an engine in top form can be very expensive. A used engine could well do with new gaskets, belts, belt tensioner rollers, oil seals, water pump, thermostat, valve guides. So you might be able to get an engine for £1000, but getting it up to scratch before installing it, may cost another £3000 on basic maintenance before it is installed, without even completely rebuilding it, just by replacing all the parts mentioned here.
However a used engine, could be installed "as is" and would by far be the cheapest option, or even spending £3000 on that engine to make it a good one would cost half the cost of a basic complete rebuild which usually would be £8000 plus £1200 for the repair to your crack in your block.

2. Rebuilding your engine. The £9200 Option
944 Turbos in the future, I am sure, will be worth a fortune, especially if they are what the classic car industry call "Matching numbers" where the engine number is the original one from the factory put into that car when it was built.
The only true way to preserve this will be to rebuild your engine. Expected cost of this would be £8000, plus an additional £1200 to repair your cracked bore. The repair would involve installing all 4 cylinders with a modern technology dry liner, as used in modern engines, plated with a Nickel Ceramic coating which would be more durable than the original Alusil, but also the dry liner would make the bores stronger than original. Some places may offer to apply something similar to just the effected cylinder, but that would mean you would have one cylinder which is not thermally balanced with the rest, which is bad engineering practice.

3. Building a new engine using a combination of your old parts and a Lux block.
This can be done and lux blocks are plentiful, but to build the engine you would need to replace all the parts you would need to rebuild your current engine, swapping only the cost for repairing your block, for the cost of preparing the lux block, which would cost a minimum of £600 if you were to stay with Alusil bores... In many ways, depending on the crack in your current bore, having a thinwall liner in your current block, would be worth the extra £600 on the cost over a basic prep on a lux block.
This prep work would be needed because new piston rings would never be able to bed into a used bore which would be polished with age, causing the engine to be an oil burning engine. The other problem is that this prep would make the bores larger, which in turn would mean you would need larger pistons, which in turn would cost more than the £600 difference in cost.
If your crack is too far gone for repair, I would probably recommend the lux block is used, and then the block is prepared in a similar way to how your crack could be repaired, but with the bonus that this method allows the use of your current standard size 944 turbo pistons.

Anybody know the location of a good Short/full 944 Turbo Engine with some guarantee? Preferably not the "only done 98,000 miles with one careful owner guv" (+ 200,000 miles with the other 8 and there was only a little bit of a fire, and BTW it has only been on the scrapyard for 10 years!) rubbish I have managed to find so far.

My old engine is now out of the car from underneath :) Lots of bits to come off but no massive dramas, will attempt to add some pics to my second post....

GT


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:43 pm 
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I'd be looking for a second opinion on your engine looking at those numbers.

£1200 to repair the crack but £8k to rebuild it? Doesn't ring true to me.

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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:24 am 
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Have a chat with EMC (KEVIN OR ALEX) thay have had two of our cars 1 S2 and our 944T, well worth a chat
high recommend
D


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Location: Warwickshire
ChrisM wrote:
I'd be looking for a second opinion on your engine looking at those numbers.

£1200 to repair the crack but £8k to rebuild it? Doesn't ring true to me.


This depends.

To reliner an engine (the bores in mine were near scrap) and to fully rebuild it I was quoted £5k via a specialist around 5 years ago. I went with the 'buy another engine secondhand' option. Yes it was a risk but it was fine.

I then found out that the engine would be the third engine the car had seen. Upon changing it the specialist noticed that the coolant hoses were swollen for the best part and that the radiator had seen better days. It seems to have fixed the issue with the car still being on its third engine :).

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Ex Owner of a 1989 944 S2 and a 1991 944 Turbo (Ex Andrew Sweetenaham (ProMax) car).

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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:40 pm 
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+1 on the second opinion.

I've got a 200,000 mile block as a spare and the bores are in fantastic shape...

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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:13 pm 
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It all depends on who owned it. The second engine in my S2 was a low mileage unit and the bores looked as if a tiger had tried to escape out of the chambers ; it was quite a sinking feeling to see the bores in that state but then with the way the engine sounded it was not surprise that it was the case and that it lasted so long with the racket! Given how long it lasted in the car (i.e not long at all) I now wonder if the first engine died via a similar cause.

You do have a point mind you. My Turbo engine was on 180k with what seemed to be the original bottom end where I suspected the bearings and rings had been changed at some point, something ProMax has noticed with a few 944 engines kept in good condiiton.

With that in mind I would get a second opinion mind you.

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Ex Owner of a 1989 944 S2 and a 1991 944 Turbo (Ex Andrew Sweetenaham (ProMax) car).

Now Porkerless! Now with a 2003 BMW M3 and 1990 Mazda MX-5 1.6


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 8:45 pm 
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Thanks for the advice freinds, I collected a new M44.52 block from Porscha-Recyled at the weekend. 10/10 to them for being realy helpfull :D and they have quite a collection of parts on their shelves. Lord knows when/how I will find the time to fit it all back together.
Next thing will be a complete front end kit belts, seals, rollers and water pump. Probably engine mounts but I have not checked the old ones yet. Are the mounts good until they are suddenly FUBAR or do they gradually deteriorate?

GT


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed (SOLVED)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:27 pm 
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Hi,
5 months on and I finaly found the time to sort it all out. Took me about 10 days working just afternoons and it was finaly all back together. Started first turn of the key and after clearing it's throat is now runningsweet as a nut.
Link to some pictures below if they are of any help, thank's to the people who helped and replied to my posts :)

http://1drv.ms/1W3Ogqt

I now have a spare in spec skimmed head how much do you reckon that is worth? Guaranteed if I sell it I will have a head gasket go next month and if I keep it on the shelf it will be there until I croak!


GT


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:43 am 
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Hi,
Spoke to soon, the car has only done 4 journeys of 20 miles each and the water system is getting pressurised. It looks like I may have bought and fitted a replacement engine that has a blown head gasket. :(

Bearing in mind that absolutely everything under the bonnet has been removed and refitted are there any other possible causes for the water system getting pressurised? Turbo?

The car runs well, temperature gauge sits where it always has. Only moves up if car is static when it climbs to fan kick in and then lowers so all normal.
There appears to be no oil in the water or water in the oil


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:11 pm 
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first time I've seen this thread, well-done sir for getting the old girl back on the road. I think that I'd check the simple things first before thinking 'blown HG'....you say the fan works, does it work for both speeds though? if not perhaps check the wiring to fan switch and switch itself. Many years ago my switch failed, resulting in pressurised coolant flooding everywhere.

Pete

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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Hi, Thanks for the reply, Was your car going over temperature to cause overpressure then? Water systems are pressurised to a degree normally to stop water from boiling.

Mine does not overheat. I filled it carefully to the maxinum mark on the header tank and started the engine from cold. I took the expansion tank cap off after the car had been running for only about a minute and water that was warm but not boiling was gushing out of the expansion tank filler.

Hence I think that combustion air is getting into the system somehow. Could this be as a result of something other than a head gasket?

Top Tip, just in case.
********WARNING DO NOT REMOVE THE FILLER CAP WHEN ENGINE IS HOT SCALDING WATER WILL SPRAY EVERWHERE!*****


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:22 pm 
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I cant see what else would cause that, I did have a very similar issue on a V8 Jeep I owned.

I was told to check if its the head gasket you can take it to a garage, who have a sniffer machine or an easy DIY check will be to take the radiator cap off then start the car, is there bubbles, there was on mine, then its pretty much the head gasket.

another check and if you don't have a radiator cap is to take the cap off the expansion tank and put a large balloon/condom, it needs to stretch over the complete cap, again start the car and if it blows up the head gasket has gone. Mine did,

Mine did, I could see bubbles and the balloon/condom did blow up, so I took it apart and replaced the head gasket,

I know its a different engine but may be worth doing the test, when cold.

hope you get it sorted.


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 Post subject: Re: 1987 944 Turbo 220 BHP Short Engine needed
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:47 pm 
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P0RSCH3 wrote:
Hi, Thanks for the reply, Was your car going over temperature to cause overpressure then? Water systems are pressurised to a degree normally to stop water from boiling.

Mine does not overheat. I filled it carefully to the maxinum mark on the header tank and started the engine from cold. I took the expansion tank cap off after the car had been running for only about a minute and water that was warm but not boiling was gushing out of the expansion tank filler.

Hence I think that combustion air is getting into the system somehow. Could this be as a result of something other than a head gasket?

Top Tip, just in case.
********WARNING DO NOT REMOVE THE FILLER CAP WHEN ENGINE IS HOT SCALDING WATER WILL SPRAY EVERWHERE!*****


Alas, I can't say in any detail, I wasn't driving the car at the time...the car had been taken by 'Autoglass' to fit a new screen, it was returned and about 20 mins later I started the car and noticed the temp was high followed quickly by it boiling coolant. Clearly, the idiot had driven it like he stole it and hadn't read the gauges at all...needless to say the car has never been driven by someone unknown to me since. I replaced the switch, repaired a dogy wire and fitted a new cap too... the car was fine afterward...

Pete

edit: I've had two Headgaskets fail during my 18 years of ownership, in both cases I had lot's of white steam/smoke from the exhaust, enough to block the view of anyone following..

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