Porsche Enthusiasts Club Forum

3rd gear that's impressive. Vast improvement over stock. 5th gear you gonna be boosting at 50mph

Looking at my records your quicker then my 5th
0.8 2860
1.0 2921
1.2 2951

My 3rd

0.8 3110
1.0 3240
1.2 3400

Did you find your old 26/8 mapping way off once you fitted turbo?

I'm pretty pleased with the results.

The K26 map was rather irrelevant as I am on a different part of the map. Before taking the car up the road I'd put together a base map with the timing pulled well back and with extra fuel in where I expected it to be required. It turns out the Matchbot tool is pretty accurate.

I am still on standard injectors and am using a adjustable fuel pressure regular which is currently set for 3 Bar but I'm intending to run 4 Bar and see what boost I can run with this amount of fuel. With a fuel pressure of 3 Bar and injectors running 100% duty at 1 Bar boost I was seeing 11.7 at 6000RPM with K26. It'll be interesting to see what results I get from upping the pressure further.

As for in a cruising condition things were pretty similar to before.

Wes,
You've been a fan from the start and have an open minded outlook on these things which is nice.

Is that the twin scroll set up your putting on your 924t?

I'm a big fan of the 924t and think there are some nice things that it has that its fatter, bigger brother the 944t can't match.
One day I'd like to get one as I think 350hp and 1100kgs with 215 section rear tyres would be great fun

The turbo is about as small as I can use to make 450hp reliably.
My original plan was to make 450hp with the response of most well sorted 350hp 944 turbos while staying 2.5 litre, the only way I am able to do this is to get the biggest turbo I can using twin scroll and the Gamma-Ti turbine to give the response and low boost threshold but due to it being on the small side for power using features like water injection and a big intercooler to keep it cool when its working hard.

The first part of the recipe has worked well so lets hope the next bit is as successful.

The EFR 7064 is a very good match for a 2.5 litre 944 turbo. It offers great response with great potential for power.

Update 9

I've been very busy the last while and haven't made as much progress as I'd have liked but I've managed to get a few days off in the coming week and intend to get out and make some headway. The plan is to get the car running on some 80lb injectors I've put in as I didn't want to run high fuel pressure after inspecting some of the fuel pipes under the car. I then want to get to the dyno (dyno dynamics) and get a base line for my project, from that I can analyse upgrades like wasted spark and eventually I'd like to run sequential injection and ignition.

Some of the time I've spent doing different interior changes.
I have fitted a pair of Recaro pole position seats which I am very pleased with, At the same time I put in a 968 CS rear seat delete which I'd had waiting in the garage for a while.

I also plan to cover my under dash and centre console in red leather as well as make some nice 964 carrera RS style door cards incorporating some 968 CS manual window winders. I also intend to fit a turbo s non sunroof roof skin and then get a red alcantara roof cloth like the 997 GT2 RS. This should make a nice unique interior.

I have also done some work on my gear linkage and leaver. I fitted a only 944 rear linkage which took most of the slack out but I still wasn't happy so I got two 10mm SKF roller bearings and made a housing and pin for them and then welded the housing to the old linkage bar that runs to the gearbox. At the same time I also extended my gear stick up to leave it much closer to the steering wheel. The linkage now has zero slack and is really nice to use. Its also in the perfect position when driving with a noticeable difference to before.


One of the parts I have been working at while I haven't had time to get to the workshop is the design of my new intake manifold. It is now pretty much complete and I will start to get some of the parts made soon. It will be a new manifold from the ground up not using any part of the old manifold or fuel rail. I will have a dual carbon plenum to keep weight down and provide an even flow across cylinders. It will have individual Jenvey throttle bodies and short runners. While designing the intake I pulled out an old 951 head of dads which had been in the corner of the garage for a long time. While take dimensions off it for my manifold I also noticed it has a 48mm intake valve and a ported intake to, he has kindly said I can use it on my car. I will have a few modifications to enable me to run 2 fuel injectors per cylinder but has the bulk of the work that I was intending to have done to my head done already. I am now on the look out for a good block with good bores that I can put a deck plate in and keep my original engine original.

This is just a small update as to what I've been doing and I'll update in the next week or so with how I get on with some more tuning.

Can you show me what you did with your linkage? And which roller bearings did you order? I've ordered my linkage from only944. But I would also like to modify the gearstick side of it. Thanks

Lucky find on the head. Will you be dyno just the turbo on the stock engine so we can see just what the turbo achieved then each extra part? Head / manifold?

Looking forward so to your results

This is a drawing showing what I had made. Its very simple and the whole thing only cost £25. The roller bearings are SKF HK1010 roller bearing which I got off RS components. I was pleased with the result and due to the roller bearings I doubt it'll ever wear out on me anyway.






Yes the plan is to dyno for a base line and a good starting map. Then add a better ignition system, manifold and then the head. This should show some interesting results. I am expecting the manifold to make a bigger difference than the head so it'll be interesting to see.

Brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant.

Thanks for sharing your progress!

Did i read your in Northern Ireland R/E
me too im in Comber, north down where abouts are you ......
i have a messly K26/6 but would be really interested to here about your mods and which rolling road your using.

Cheers Simon

Simon,
Yes I'm based in Fermanagh near Enniskillen.
I am intending to use Elite motor performance's rolling road. They have proper knock monitoring and a Dyno Dynamics rolling road which I wanted as its supposed to produce "more realistic" figures. They are based in Armagh so not too far from me either, Its the nearest rolling road that I'm aware of anyway.

PM me and we can arrange a chat if you wish.

Robert

Just a few images of a delivery that arrived today.







I'm very pleased with these, they aren't cheap but certainly are the business when you see them in the flesh. I will update you some more as the intake manifold project develops.

Robert, can you please post an update? I would love to hear more about this.

I want to do something very similar with my 951, except that I will use most of the original stock single crossover with a modification to mount a twin-scroll EFR turbo in order to use a quickspool valve that blocks flow to one of the inlets on the twinscroll at lower RPM's, thus making the turbo A/R look half its size when the valve is closed, and spool even faster. The result is not a higher HP level (in fact you lose about 3% of the top end), but a much broader curve allowing boost and HP to build 300-500 RPM's earlier.

I have the technical skills to move over to a standalone EMS fairly easily, but I don't have a machine shop or fabrication equipment at my disposal, so I would have to pay out of pocket for a lot of that. If I can find a way to retain the stock intake manifold, I think I could farm out the fabrication for the modified turbo mount, crossover and downpipe.

Do you think you could have mounted the 7064 low enough to clear the stock intake manifold (or at least low enough that I could have added spacers to the stock manifold to get the clearance I need)? Can the stock turbo/motor mount component be modified to mount the 7064? I'm thinking maybe even just chop off as much as I need for the new adapter so that the net height after installing an adapter is the same.

I know the stock manifold only flows around 200cfm, but it's not a big deal to me right now because I'll rarely spend much time at high RPM levels. I'll never beat the big-HP motors, I just want really quick spool to get a jump through the tighter sections of the course. Worst case, I will buy the Lindsey intake to clear the turbo if I can't use the stock manifold, then my only remaining airflow restriction will be the intercooler - not sure what that flows, but I've read there is a problem with the inlet.

Hello, I will update as soon as I get a chance to get a few images of what I have coming together here.
I'm starting on my manifold very shortly and have the makings of a nice little engine coming together.


I have read about quick spool valves before and there is debate about the benefits of full twin scroll and quick spool. I think it really depends on you application. With a properly packaged twin scroll you can run different cams and all sorts of other small benefits which I like as they sort of improve the efficiency of the over all power unit. Plus there is no doubt that they have a slightly better response I think about 10-15% from what I've seen and especially transient response.


If your in the UK I'd save yourself the hassle of a standalone install and go for a Augtronic unit. I looked into doing the same and found I could do everything I wanted with the Augtronic and with some prep I installed it and did a road tune with Tom in a day with ease. It has worked perfectly since and Tom provides a good after service with lots of technical support.


To answer a few of your queries:
My car is utilising the stock mount with an adapter fitted.
With this a 5mm spacer with a gasket on both faces gives me enough room below the manifold for the turbo.
The problem you will have mounting the turbo any lower is the size of the hot housing as it won't clear the stock engine mount. I would have to look up the CAD drawing for the adapter to find out the exact total hight. It wouldn't really want to be much if any lower. I probably didn't take enough pictures as I sadly don't have one to explain this so I hope you know your 951 well! I can tell you that things are very tight in there as standard and adding what basically is quite a big turbo particularly the hot side makes it a challenge for this reason I would wonder where you'll fit your quick spool valve.



If you aren't looking to support higher RPMs why not just use a smaller turbo.
My dads GT30 hybrid has the following boost threshold:
2000rpm 0.2bar
2250rpm 0.6bar
2500rpm 0.8bar
2750rpm 1.1bar
This turbo does exactly what you described supplying high torque at lower RPMs and enough power higher up I'm estimate around 320hp. For a zero lag quick response turbo it doesn't get much better IMO.
I think the people to talk to about this would be turbo dynamics if you wanted to do it yourself. Before even starting to do a turbo upgrade you will need a modified intercooler and also a 3" exhaust if you want to get the best out of it. If your looking for torque and relatively low performance then the standard manifold and cam will probably suit fine.

All the best of luck
Robert

Update

I thought I'd give you a small update on whats been happening regarding my car.
I now have the waste gate controlling boost properly however they aren't pulling full boost yet due to only having a 0.3bar spring which with just spring pressure is pulling 0.5bar to 0.4bar across the rev range so back pressure is very low at this point. The car pulls very well considering how low the boost is and the open waste gate's aren't as horrific as I expected. I won't be changing the springs as I only want the lightest springs I can when I get my ECU controlled boost control working which should be in the next couple of weeks. I will get a video when I have the car running full boost so you can hear and see how great it is.

I have also been speccing the engine which I will build over the course of the summer and fit next winter along with some chassis upgrades. The engine will be 2.5 litre with standard bore and stroke but thats where "standard" ends, the rods will be 156mm Carrillo's from a Mitsubishi which results in a much shorter compression height and there for lighter pistons, it also results in a better rod to stroke ratio and therefore a smaller rod angle which means less load on the skirt of the piston, this enables me to go for a semi skirt piston which also reduces weight. The new rod also has a 22mm pin (24mm standard) which will also reduce weight but not strength. The pistons will be custom JE running 8.5CR. I also will be running as little piston to head clearance as I can to get the best out of the 8V quench area. This should help provide an efficient burn. The pistons will be running in Darton MID sleeves which will mean I have a very strong base for a big torque motor. I think I'll get over 400ft/lbs at 4000RPM and torque peaking at 5000rpm.

I have also been making some progress on my intake. After much time drawing ideas, chopping and changing it was time to get some test pieces made up. This was just to get our bearings as to what it looks like on the head and I will fit it onto my car to see how much room we make for the turbo, I say "we" as my dad deserves all the credit for this "test" plenum which we will be able to change key dimensions quickly and easily on a dyno to see what produces the best compromise for this turbo and engine package. We will also be adding and removing runner length to move the torque around and see the results.




As you can see there there is a slight spark plug issue which will have to be fixed but all in all I think it looks rather well. You will also notice the injectors are different, there will be two fuel injectors on this car one small very effecient for super smooth idle and great economy probably running in sequential mode and also the big 80lb injector I'm currently running with for bulk fuel delivery under boost. I hope to also run a set of direct port water injectors which are the shorter row farther up the runner. the target water delivery will be 12% of fuel delivered.


These will be going on next winter with other structural improvements.

A few images of engine bits.


Big valve head

Ported intake ports


Hope this is of interest.

Will update more on the turbo progress and also manifold in due course.

Thanks for everything you have posted so far, this is a fantastic project. I would love to hear more about the turbo's performance characteristics in this car. Is everything dialed in now, and do you have a dyno sheet yet?