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 Post subject: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Hello all,
As the title suggests I though you might be interested in my project.
I am working on a black 1989 M030 turbo with 148k on the clock.
It was a very original car with not major work carried out on it.
When I started work on the car, it had a Promax level 2 tuning kit an I'd estimate around 270hp.
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The car had been sitting for around 3 years before the project started meaning there were a fair list of things to do before a MOT could be carried out.
I then decided the best base for this project was a proper engine management system and after some research looking at standalone units it was obvious that Augtronic was by far the quickest and easiest solution and in my opinion would be hard to improve on.

So after some prep and a trip to Gloucestershire I had the platform for a very quick car.

From the start it is important to understand this project is to create a Porsche 944 turbo that is brought up to current levels of technology, performance and is a focused fast road car.

After much time, thought and calculation I have settled with the EFR 7064 in 1.05a/r form.
Through my calculations I will be able to make 450+hp with this turbo.
I plan to make this at 6800rpm using 1.45bar following a long scheme of work.
For now I wont be pushing the car as I'm saving up for some rods and head work.

Some images of the turbo:
Image
Image
Image
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Image

As you can see the turbo isn't the finest thing a Porsche 944 has ever seen but so far all is going to plan as far a fitment is concerned and the first test mount should be on the car by the weekend. Fabrication of the X-over and exhaust will follow.

I have also modified my intercooler but it will be upgraded to something much larger in time.

Some of the planned engine improvements to follow include:
Forged rods
48mm intake valve
Mild porting
ITB intake manifold
Direct port water injection
Modern intercooler
Intercooler spray bar
and much more

These will be put off for sometime due to chassis improvements and also some interior improvements.
Chassis wise I'm going for 968 M030 ARBs, Powerflex bushes all round, 968 caster blocks, 220lb front springs and I'm not sure what to do at the rear.
With dampers I'm split between AST 5100 or KW

I have recently fitted some new wheels and am quite pleased with the look and they drive lovely.
Image
Image
A few of the Interior improvements planned are:
Auto wipers
Auto headlight with coming home delay when car is turned off.

Hope you all find this interesting

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:18 pm
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Location: Sheffield: Rome of the North!
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How will you get the twin scroll turbo to work Robert? TS turbochargers are great, but theyre very difficult to get to work properly and Id always regarded them as something which needs manufacturer level engineering to succeed.

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1988 944 Turbo - the Pink Pig
1989 944 2.7
1985 944 It's alive!
1986 944 Automatic


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:16 pm
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Location: UK
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Budget ?


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:22 pm 
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Nice project and wise choice of turbo. EFR 7064 should allow up to ~560hp IIRC, but 450hp will keep it running efficiently.

Twin scroll is the future. It's only a matter of treating the engine as 2 x 2 cylinder engines rather than one 4 cylinder. The length of the exhaust manifold has a smaller effect than the bores of the primaries and secondaries. I don't see the crossover design being a problem and I had considered it for my 924 Turbo.
Other than that, make sure that 1 + 4 and 2 + 3 stay absolutely separate. I personally favour twin external waste gates over a single external with divided entry - pressure can still make a U turn when the wastegate valve opens.

Running a divided twin scroll system like this opens up camshaft choice for you. Running some overlap on the cam will then scavenge the non-pressurised half of the engine, rather than cross-contamination of cylinders as before.
So not only do you get a more efficient turbine, but you also increase the VE of the engine.

My Father and I have almost finished my twin scroll manifold. It will initially run single scroll but will eventually get a twin scroll Holset HX35.

Check this out for a nice techie twin scroll read:-

http://www.mhi.co.jp/technology/review/pdf/e501/e501023.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:35 pm 
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Location: Warrington, Cheshire
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Woah! That is heavy going but a good read. It goes on about efficiencies and is based on a study for Diesel engines but the theory is the same. I agree twin scroll turbos are the way to go to get less lag and more consistent power throughout the rev range. So once you've figured out which turbo you need, the only problem I see is squeezing in an extra wastegate and crossover pipe. With my turbo choice probably being next year sometime I'm really interested to see the results.

Good luck Robert and please keep us updated.

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'88 944 Turbo S
Slowly being modified. APexi AVC-R, MAF and in bits all over the garage!
'94 968 Sport
KW's and the daily drive.


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:17 pm
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There's a hell of a lot of work ahead of you but good on you for choosing this path. Seems kinda contradictory to go to this amount of effort and then stay with 200lb springs. You will need to beef up your suspension considerably if you plan to run 450bhp. I know of only one person that has successfully fabricated a twin scroll turbo on a 951 and it took a lot of R&D to make it right. Suffered a lot of backpressure initially with the split X over pipes (each running a wastegate). If you go on Rennlist at all I would suggest trying to contact 'Thingo' from there. Perhaps he can advise you of some shortcuts? We looked at the EFR turbos and they do read well on paper but wound up with a GTX3582 and so far, so good. Look forward to reading your updates.

ps where are you getting the ITB manifold from?

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333pg333 Youtube channel


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:14 pm
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Update 1

First off thanks for the interest and good luck for my project.
I havent made as much progress as I'd hoped for a number of reasons but I'll tell you what I have done.

So I have had my first test mount system made up and am very pleased with the result as it doesn't look like it needs to much adjusting.
Image
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As you can see there is a nice bit of room for my down pipe and also I have been able to keep the original dipstick.
The mount system I've used is basically an adapter that also raises the turbo up 30mm. And also moves the turbo away from the engine block. It also makes the transition from the original pedestal hole centres and the new Borg Warner holes.
The Borg Warner turbo oil drain flange it the same as the K26/8 oil feed.

I have been held up due to the tubing size I want to use for my X-over been hard to get hold of however I will have it next week so hope to have the X-over and maybe waste gates finished next week end.

I have had a stainless flange made up to bolt upto the headers
Image
This utilises the original crush rings however they are around £25 each so I may have my own made up.

For those who were wondering about my waste gating I will be using two Tial MVS waste gates due to there compact size and ease of installation.
Image

The exhaust will be 3" from the turbo back with one stainless Jetex back box. The waste gates will have a separate discharge point.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:14 pm
Posts: 38
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944 Man wrote:
How will you get the twin scroll turbo to work Robert? TS turbochargers are great, but theyre very difficult to get to work properly and Id always regarded them as something which needs manufacturer level engineering to succeed.

Due to the fact the headers on the 944 are already paired 1+4 and 2+3 it shouldn't be to hard at all. Also due to the fact the two x-over tubes are smaller than OEM they wont be too big a challenge to fit. Due to me using to smaller wastegates they will be able to tee into the X-over where it starts at the bottom of the headers.

pauly wrote:
Budget ?

I havent fixed one Pauly but with 450hp it has an excuse to be higher than average.

Wes wrote:
Nice project and wise choice of turbo. EFR 7064 should allow up to ~560hp IIRC, but 450hp will keep it running efficiently.

Twin scroll is the future. It's only a matter of treating the engine as 2 x 2 cylinder engines rather than one 4 cylinder. The length of the exhaust manifold has a smaller effect than the bores of the primaries and secondaries. I don't see the crossover design being a problem and I had considered it for my 924 Turbo.
Other than that, make sure that 1 + 4 and 2 + 3 stay absolutely separate. I personally favour twin external waste gates over a single external with divided entry - pressure can still make a U turn when the wastegate valve opens.

Running a divided twin scroll system like this opens up camshaft choice for you. Running some overlap on the cam will then scavenge the non-pressurised half of the engine, rather than cross-contamination of cylinders as before.
So not only do you get a more efficient turbine, but you also increase the VE of the engine.

My Father and I have almost finished my twin scroll manifold. It will initially run single scroll but will eventually get a twin scroll Holset HX35.

Check this out for a nice techie twin scroll read:-

http://www.mhi.co.jp/technology/review/pdf/e501/e501023.pdf

Wes thanks for the interesting info. I agree with every thing you have said and my x-over will be completely divided.
The reason I am only really able to produce 450hp with this turbo is I am running quite low boost. These turbos are able to run very efficiently as very high boost making them Ideal for smaller engines. If I wanted over 500hp I'd use a 7670 1.05 a/r and use a 2.8ltr setup.

333pg333 wrote:
There's a hell of a lot of work ahead of you but good on you for choosing this path. Seems kinda contradictory to go to this amount of effort and then stay with 200lb springs. You will need to beef up your suspension considerably if you plan to run 450bhp. I know of only one person that has successfully fabricated a twin scroll turbo on a 951 and it took a lot of R&D to make it right. Suffered a lot of backpressure initially with the split X over pipes (each running a wastegate). If you go on Rennlist at all I would suggest trying to contact 'Thingo' from there. Perhaps he can advise you of some shortcuts? We looked at the EFR turbos and they do read well on paper but wound up with a GTX3582 and so far, so good. Look forward to reading your updates.

ps where are you getting the ITB manifold from?


Thanks for the feed back and I love your car its a great advertisement for the 944 community!!
I may have to beef up the suspension in time but on UK roads going too hard will just make the car bounce on rough surfaces resulting in bad cornering performance.

My ITB manifold I will design myself. This is a large project on its own so I'll do it separately after the turbo is finished.


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Update 2
Small update as yesterday I managed to make some more progress mainly on the intake.
I have had to move the position of the original throttle body due to it obstructing the turbos location.
Image
I know this wont do anything for throttle response but its only a short term solution until I make my ITB manifold.

I have also modified the original intercooler to enable it to flow a lot more air. Although the intercooler isn't very efficient I think with the help of water injection and an intercooler spray bar it will be good enough for my project to begin with. In time I think I will have to fit a bigger more efficient intercooler.
Image
Image

One of the other areas of the car I have been improving is the oiling system, I have done away with the old oil cooler as it really was past its best and have fitted a larger cooler in front of the rad. I will post up more pictures when I get the system finished as it should be rather nice.

Image

Hope this is of interest

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:26 pm 
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Update 3
So I'm finally starting to make some progress on the interesting stuff.
I have fabricated my down pipe and have nearly got my x-over fabricated.

I am using 1 3/4 SS tube for the cross over which translates for a 44.5mm OD and a 41.5mm ID.
I think this should result in a reasonably low boost threshold but shouldn't limit the top end.

When fabricating I start by using masking tape for joints as this make adjustments easy and mean you don't have to keep braking tacks.

Image

I am pleased with how much room I ended up having for the DP as I didn't have to use any small radius bends or start pie cutting my own bends.

Image

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On my v bands when I was test fitting I noticed that they don't always self centre very well. To prevent this from being a problem I have offset the pipe break and the v band flanges.

Image
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I also decided that where the castor mount is mounted could do with a trim to give my DP a little more room.

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It isn't the easiest place to access so not the prettiest TIG weld later It was capped with a stainless plate.

Image

I have also been making progress with the X-over. It can be quite awkward trying to get stuff fitting nice when the engines in the car and you feel like you spend ages just studying the best way to fabricate.

Image
Image
Image

As you can see I'm "getting there" and the next update will hopefully include some numbers on the performance of this turbo.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:11 am 
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Wow, nice progress and workmanship! I didn't think there'd be that much room but perhaps the turbo you're using is smaller than the ones I looked at some time ago. From memory the issue my friend 'thingo' ran into on his twin scroll was of backpressure once the 2 x-overs joined up into the turbo. I believe they played around with the size of the x over plumbing. It's been a while. (My long term project is to move the turbo over to the rhs of the motor but that is for another day.)

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951 Racecar
333pg333 Youtube channel


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Update 4


Its been a while since I last updated so thought I'd let you all know how I've been getting on.

Alot of the time since I last updates has been spent designing and waiting for parts to be machined.

One of the parts Ive had made for the car is the turbo adapter. This makes the transition from the original turbo mount to the oil drain on the EFR 7064. It is a two part adapter made from stainless and Ali. All the structural strength in the adapter is in the stainless.
Image
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I also had a boss made up for the original water temperature switch in the turbo water line. This is also made from stainless.
Image

I have also had the hanger brackets for the exhaust laser cut and they have turned out very nicely.
Image

While waiting for these parts to be made I got some heat wrap for my headers and also put in some ports for testing back pressure.
These are in headers 1 and 3.
Image
Image

So once I had the parts gathered up I got stuck into my exhaust. The complete system is back purged and surprisingly light weight I haven't weighed it yet but I'd say lighter than OEM.
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I am now doing the finishing touches to my x-over before welding it up. This will be completed this week.

Once this is done I have an AOS can to make and a couple of heat shields and I can start to make noise. I intend to do some experimenting with the mapping on this car to see what improvements are in it for turbo response. I intend to try lean spool and also some mild anti-lag type mapping in the higher rev range to keep the turbo spinning during gear changes, the ECU fuel cut will protect the turbo and exhaust from getting too hot.


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 10:03 pm 
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Its coming along nicely, i'm rather envious of your welding skills.


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 11:13 pm 
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Great work..... jealous

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Zermatt 88 944 turbo
Augtronic ecu&map
3071gtx/0.63tial V band/38mm Dpw
3" fastroad exhaust
80lb injectors
Stage2 intercooler
Apexi ebc.
9xx quick shift/ front shift/fuel pump
M030 brakes/Coilovers/30mm front roll
18" JARA cups 225F/285R


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 Post subject: Re: The Porsche 944 turbo EFR 7064 project
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:57 am 
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Yes, definitely good skills displayed. The new exhaust will or should weigh considerably less than OEM. The stock exhaust was really heavy with some areas having twin walls around where the d/pipe joins the exhaust proper. Often the inside wall has collapsed on the stock part and this is why new exhausts are a good upgrade to these cars.

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951 Racecar
333pg333 Youtube channel


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