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 Post subject: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Has anyone had any long term experience with either of these on a daily-ish driver? I’m looking to upgrade the performance on my 944 turbo and although could achieve my goals with the usual mods, chipset, wastegate, FPR etc, I like the thought of controllability that these ECU’s can give. My concern is with the long term software/hardware support that the ECU’s will have and the reliability of the tune on a daily, cold start, hot start, AC on/off etc. Also there is an element of losing the cars originality for any future value it may have, (if prices go crazy like on other Porsche’s) What do you guys think, go chipset route, or PnP standalone with all that it offers, wasted spark, EBC etc?
Thanks for the feedback
Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Chips will be cheap, and on a healthy engine etc give around 30-40 bhp dependant on turbo/boost. A plug and play VEMS kit will replace the DME & KLR and will allow plenty of user adjustment. Augment was expensive for what it was last time I checked. Google for prices.


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:53 pm 
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pauly wrote:
Chips will be cheap, and on a healthy engine etc give around 30-40 bhp dependant on turbo/boost. A plug and play VEMS kit will replace the DME & KLR and will allow plenty of user adjustment. Augment was expensive for what it was last time I checked. Google for prices.


Thanks for the info Pauly. I have had experience with aftermaket ECU's, as I currently run an MS3pro on another car and have used Link and Emerald in the past, so know the costs and what to expect from them with regards to fitting, tuning, etc. From what I've seen a Vems or Augment ECU PnP kit are similarly priced around £1100, both a few hundred more if you want to run wasted spark.
I was hoping someone will share their experience of running either a Vems or Augtronic PnP over a period of time on a daily (or daily-ish) driver, and if it was worth the time, effort and cost over a chipped DME/KLR setup. Like is the car much smoother, does it boost earlier or better? How are the cold starts? What is it like to update the software etc? For example my MS3 can be a little temperamental, not often but enough for me to question putting something similar in the porker. If I decided to go Pnp, I'd run it with Cops, EBC and probably a few other bits and bobs, so do people think that it would take to much of the cars originality away?
Thanks for the suggestions
Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:43 pm 
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Sounds like you know your way around standalone, search over on Rennlist for some experienced users of VEMS.


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:11 pm 
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I got augment with cams and wasted spark. Its a daily 944s2. Sort of ok, but in my case idle is a bit jumping. Starting hot or cold, no issues. Running a bit rich. Only thing i hate is running on map sensor alone, no tps

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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:11 am 
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Brewer wrote:
I got augment with cams and wasted spark. Its a daily 944s2. Sort of ok, but in my case idle is a bit jumping. Starting hot or cold, no issues. Running a bit rich. Only thing i hate is running on map sensor alone, no tps


How much did it all cost? Plus think I read something about Augment quoting £400+ to set it all up on their dyno.


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:14 am 
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Can't remember exactly, but it was arm and a leg. I had cams, ecu, injectors, wiring loom , wasted spark and something else. Bill was over £3k

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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:26 pm 
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I hope you're happy with it. Though I'd have thought it uses a TPS, did you mean it doesn't use an AFM or a MAF? Have you got an AFR gauge fitted, that would help you dial in the fuelling.


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Brewer wrote:
I got augment with cams and wasted spark. Its a daily 944s2. Sort of ok, but in my case idle is a bit jumping. Starting hot or cold, no issues. Running a bit rich. Only thing i hate is running on map sensor alone, no tps


Thanks for the info Brewer. Interesting re idle hunting, did you have a play with the tuning or did the chaps at Augment set it up for you.?
As Pauly says, have you got a wideband setup? If only using map it can be a bit of a pain getting the idle right with a bigger cam overlap. Spending some time on acc/enrichment tip’in point area can be beneficial, also check the timing, ideally you want to be a bit lower than full power timing at idle and then putting in a couple of degrees of advancement in a row a few hundred rpms under your target idle as this can help stabilise the idle. But obviously if you run the car with too much advance at idle you will end up losing power and have no where to go but backwards. Also maybe check your IAC settings in open loop, and check the vacuum lines have no leaks.


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:41 pm 
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pauly wrote:
I hope you're happy with it. Though I'd have thought it uses a TPS, did you mean it doesn't use an AFM or a MAF? Have you got an AFR gauge fitted, that would help you dial in the fuelling.

I got map sensor and afr gauge too. Maybe turbo applications uses tps, but not my

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13' Norco Storm 6.1
93' MB r129 SL500 (SOLD, and missed)
97 'Jaguar XJ Sport


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Bon Voyage wrote:
Brewer wrote:
I got augment with cams and wasted spark. Its a daily 944s2. Sort of ok, but in my case idle is a bit jumping. Starting hot or cold, no issues. Running a bit rich. Only thing i hate is running on map sensor alone, no tps


Thanks for the info Brewer. Interesting re idle hunting, did you have a play with the tuning or did the chaps at Augment set it up for you.?
As Pauly says, have you got a wideband setup? If only using map it can be a bit of a pain getting the idle right with a bigger cam overlap. Spending some time on acc/enrichment tip’in point area can be beneficial, also check the timing, ideally you want to be a bit lower than full power timing at idle and then putting in a couple of degrees of advancement in a row a few hundred rpms under your target idle as this can help stabilise the idle. But obviously if you run the car with too much advance at idle you will end up losing power and have no where to go but backwards. Also maybe check your IAC settings in open loop, and check the vacuum lines have no leaks.

They done mapping few times, haven't played myself as im bad at it :D
At the moment im sorting out dead lifters. No vacuum leaks too. Will try playing with mapping later, no time due work

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90' S2
13' Norco Storm 6.1
93' MB r129 SL500 (SOLD, and missed)
97 'Jaguar XJ Sport


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:38 pm 
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Brewer wrote:
Bon Voyage wrote:
Brewer wrote:
I got augment with cams and wasted spark. Its a daily 944s2. Sort of ok, but in my case idle is a bit jumping. Starting hot or cold, no issues. Running a bit rich. Only thing i hate is running on map sensor alone, no tps


Thanks for the info Brewer. Interesting re idle hunting, did you have a play with the tuning or did the chaps at Augment set it up for you.?
As Pauly says, have you got a wideband setup? If only using map it can be a bit of a pain getting the idle right with a bigger cam overlap. Spending some time on acc/enrichment tip’in point area can be beneficial, also check the timing, ideally you want to be a bit lower than full power timing at idle and then putting in a couple of degrees of advancement in a row a few hundred rpms under your target idle as this can help stabilise the idle. But obviously if you run the car with too much advance at idle you will end up losing power and have no where to go but backwards. Also maybe check your IAC settings in open loop, and check the vacuum lines have no leaks.

They done mapping few times, haven't played myself as im bad at it :D.
At the moment im sorting out dead lifters. No vacuum leaks too. Will try playing with mapping later, no time due work


Let us know how it goes. I’m the same, basic stuff is ok but once it gets serious I tend to get brain drain!
Im still undecided on how to control the car. In my mind both Vems and Augtronic have their plus and minuses, and even a basic chipset, FPR, wastegate upgrade has its place, I suppose it depends on how far I want go with modding the car. In one of my other cars I run a MS3 pro that’s set up with multiple maps, boost/torque by gear, flat shift, launch control etc and it’s great but realistically do I want the same in the porker? The answer is probably no, but then I do like the thought of a duel map setup, wasted spark etc, decisions, decisions!


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Brewer wrote:

I got map sensor and afr gauge too. Maybe turbo applications uses tps, but not my



On the Augment website, there's a picture of an S2 engine with a TPS on the throttle body.


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Blue s2 with beige cam cover? If that one, then it is my car. Tps not connected

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93' MB r129 SL500 (SOLD, and missed)
97 'Jaguar XJ Sport


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 Post subject: Re: Vems or Augment Ecu or Chipset?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:25 pm 
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Bon Voyage wrote:

In my mind both Vems and Augtronic have their plus and minuses,



What minuses do you think VEMS has?


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